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[Music]

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you're in the paracast

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the gold standard of paranormal radio

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and now

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well here's what happened about 45

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minutes before we started

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chris o'brien calls

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and he

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is not the kind of person who takes a

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flu shot every year and i'm not going to

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say that made him contract the flu but

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he didn't sound so good

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so i told him to take the

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evening off or the day off or whatever

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it is

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indeed i'll spend this time with our

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special guest alejandra rojas from

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openminds alejandro welcome back to the

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powercast i've got one single question

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for you do you take flu shots and if not

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why not

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i do not take flu shots and i don't have

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a flu issue so it's like it's rare i get

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the flu

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and in fact you know even though i'm not

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known as kind of a woohoo kind of guy i

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i feel

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and and there is some you know science

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behind it it's when i found that i

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really started doing meditation a lot

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and i found like a place to be able to

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relax

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i could also kind of just feel when my

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body needs to rest and so often when

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something like that comes on i'll rest

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or meditate

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and over time it goes away and really

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for years

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it's extremely rare that i get the flu

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so i mean if i got the flu every year

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i'd probably consider it i'm not afraid

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of it but i figure at this point if i

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don't need it then why do it you'll wait

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until it happens but the problem with

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that is it's too late well true but if

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you get the shot it's not good for every

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virus or if the virus is morse that year

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so it's not like it's a

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something that's going to work for a

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certain anyway so

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it'll help but it doesn't necessarily

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mean that you know you're you're flu

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free so

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those are reasons i mean it's not like

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it's causing maybe when i get older i'll

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start to do it where it may cause

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more complications but i just don't get

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the flu why get the shot if i don't get

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the flu

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tell me that i will not tell you that

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because i have no answer of course as we

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know the flu shot's kind of like a

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diluted version of a particular strain

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of flu and they make an educated guess

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what kinds of flu will be rampant this

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particular season

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all right

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unfortunately they're sometimes wrong

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but i'll tell you this since i've been

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taking flu shots which i do religiously

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every year and i'm not necessarily a

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religious person but i do take it every

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year and i have not contracted the flu

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ever

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since i did that yeah i mean i think as

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i get older it'll probably be a point

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where my immune system will weaken and

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i'll need to do that but at least right

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now

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year but i was more stressed out and i

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think that's what the meditation helped

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and there is science behind that there

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are studies that show you know if you

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relax if you're able to whether it's

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meditation or whatever you do to relax

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if you're less stressed than being too

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stressed for too long although it can be

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benefit you in short bursts it can be

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detrimental

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at long periods of times like we are

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when we're you know stressed all day at

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work or something like that so you got

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to chill you got to relax and that will

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actually help

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your body

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tackle your

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sicknesses

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you'll be healthier

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and stay away from people because if

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someone else has a flu virus and

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shake their hand

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or

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something of that nature well that could

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do it so i just hide from people

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that's the way i do it i just stay away

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from everybody i live like a hermit no i

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don't before we go on let me just tell

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our listeners

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that we really want you to support the

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show and listen to our second radio show

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called after the power cast and the only

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way to do that is to become a member of

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the powercast plus you go to

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plus.thepowercast.com

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and

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version of this show higher quality

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audio alejandro rojas will sound just

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perfect he sounds perfect now

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that way he's even more perfect and when

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chris is here and feeling better he'll

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sound just marvelous

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in any case you get that you get the

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after the powercast podcast we've added

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some show transcripts we've got a video

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up there

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more will come

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the subscription rate is modest for

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month to month annual five year

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and lifetime i think our rates are on

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the low side

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for a premium show go to

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plus.thepowercast.com once again

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plus.theparacast.com we welcome your

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suggestions

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to make it better alejandro of course

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we're going to talk about the

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international ufo congress which is

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coming

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next month we're talking to him in

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january just to the tail end of the

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month and he's got some amazing speakers

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people that you would not normally

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expect

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to see

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making a speech at a ufo event or even

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showing up

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this is going to be really incredible

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we'll talk about that but you used to be

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associated with mufon

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and before we go on explain to our

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listeners what your connection to that

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organization was yeah well really once i

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really got into this topic i i lived as

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a hermit i mean i if i wasn't at work

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at the time i was a corporate trainer so

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i was dealing with people a lot all day

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every day i stress out getting the flu i

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would go home after that and just read

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and study and read and study for a year

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well i don't know maybe years probably a

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couple years even and finally i got to

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the point where i felt i read everything

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i could read it's starting to get

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repetitive

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online or in print format

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and so i decided now i've got to get out

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into the field and luckily you know i

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kept

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i learned about mufon during this

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process and their headquarters was in

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the town next door i was in lakewood

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colorado and they were in littleton

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colorado another suburb of denver i went

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and got involved luckily they had

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monthly speakers at their organization

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and got to meet john schussler who was

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the executive director at the time

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and i started helping out with the local

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group and then we were running the

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symposium so people may remember that in

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the early 2000s it was in denver for

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several years in a row

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and i got to be involved with the

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national organization james carrion was

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then the director at that time

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and he brought me on as a director of

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education but pr kind of fell under that

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and having a journalism background to me

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pr was important not only that the web

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was getting more and more important and

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so really the job became consumed by the

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pr portion of it so uh they named me the

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official spokesperson for mufon i was

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just kind of representing them the great

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thing about mufon even though it's a

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nonprofit organization i think that at

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the time especially even now but at the

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time especially we got a lot of

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attention more attention than let's say

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a normal i think we had to do less work

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than than other non-profits because

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people were fascinated by the topic

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especially

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well funny thing last night i was on our

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local fox news doing a ufo story and in

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denver the fox news out there they used

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to run the most ufo stories out there so

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i would meet with them quite often

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so that's how it all started from

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running conferences and doing the pr

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stuff and then writing and doing my

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podcast

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uh with mufon that's how it evolved into

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open minds because you know my boss

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wanted to start a company where he did

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all of that stuff and and so that's why

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it was a good fit for me to move to the

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phoenix area and begin working with open

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minds

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that was your training ground

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exactly

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okay the reason i brought this up is

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because you're somebody who would be in

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the know about what mufon does and we'll

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get into more of this in our next

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segment

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but you're probably aware that back in

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june

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over at a blog called ufo trail

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there was an article called ufo

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community members weigh in

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on dubious mufon speakers

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and the emphasis was on jaime misson

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yeah and the reason is his connection

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with

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the

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topic that shall not be named which is

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also known as roswell slides

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and we've covered that

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extensively so i'm not going to cover

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that anymore because we all know what

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happened we all know how it was exposed

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we all know how transparent it was

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but

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what bothers me here

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is that after this

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after this event

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they're still inviting jaime musan to be

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a featured speaker at a mufon annual

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symposium

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and

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the problem i see is that they seem to

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be tone deaf to what's going on if

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you're looking at a speaker because he

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fills seats

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not because he has factual content to

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offer

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more to come

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gene steinberg chris o'brien is

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as they say

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you know under the weather with gene and

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i know that a lot of our listeners are

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interested in ufos the issue of giants

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skeletons found in america paranormal

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investigations and what the top

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researchers think about such topics one

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online magazine has been presenting such

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unusual information since 1985.

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that's

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805-222-4584 radio listeners get 20

355
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

356
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:05,760
comment or question about the paracast

357
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:09,360
send it to news at theparacast.com

358
00:14:14,389 --> 00:14:12,560
that's news at the paracast.com

359
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:14,399
and don't forget to visit our famous

360
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:16,880
paracast community forums at

361
00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:22,790
you do that well i'm going to have to

362
00:14:26,750 --> 00:14:25,519
add you to our roster of favored the

363
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:26,760
power cast

364
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:29,760
enunciators isn't that great it's fun i

365
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:30,959
love doing it

366
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:33,600
we have alejandro rojas with us

367
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:35,760
and we're talking about a lot of

368
00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:38,800
subjects but focusing right now on ufo

369
00:14:42,069 --> 00:14:40,079
conventions

370
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,079
getting the best speakers

371
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,720
and there's this article called ufo

372
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:46,800
community members weigh in on dubious

373
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,880
mufon speakers and i mentioned jaime

374
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:50,399
mussan but in the past there have been

375
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:52,480
other people who have been

376
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,560
questionable

377
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:56,880
so we've had jan harzan

378
00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:59,279
the current director of mufon

379
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:01,920
on the show he seems like a nice guy

380
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:03,839
like a reasonable guy

381
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:06,079
but he also seems tone deaf to things

382
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:07,279
like this

383
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:09,680
what's your perception yeah i mean

384
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:11,760
there's two things there's the ufo

385
00:15:17,189 --> 00:15:14,959
community and there's ufo research even

386
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,199
when i was a spokesperson for mufon a

387
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:19,600
lot of what i struggled with was dealing

388
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:22,000
with the ufo community

389
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:24,399
and my kind of statement was this

390
00:15:29,750 --> 00:15:27,360
everybody wanted mufon to do everything

391
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:29,760
mufon was like the organization mufon

392
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:30,720
had to

393
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:33,120
investigate sasquatch or

394
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:35,040
anal probes or

395
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:37,120
what is the name of the children that

396
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:39,120
that are supposedly special or something

397
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:42,000
like this i think every grand parent

398
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:44,399
thinks that their kid is a star child or

399
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:46,639
something like that i'll go for the star

400
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:48,480
trial yes there's something special

401
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:51,440
about them in fact just to bring that up

402
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:53,920
there was an episode this week of the

403
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:56,880
revitalized x-files

404
00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,120
they kind of had a connection with

405
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:01,519
special children who have unusual

406
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:02,720
abilities

407
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,759
but let's go past that go ahead indigo

408
00:16:10,150 --> 00:16:07,680
children so it's like i think the

409
00:16:13,269 --> 00:16:10,160
x-files was a good example they tried to

410
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:13,279
tackle everything in the community and

411
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,720
to be honest that's what the ufo

412
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:16,880
congress does the ufo congress is kind

413
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:19,680
of a populist we try to encapsulate

414
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:22,399
aspects of the entire field although

415
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:25,040
personally i'm more into the science and

416
00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:27,120
really that's what mufon's supposed to

417
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,959
be the science and i've always said

418
00:16:33,749 --> 00:16:30,800
there's a place for the study of science

419
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:33,759
a place where that credible information

420
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:36,800
that mainstream feels is credible can be

421
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:38,639
brought together and people who are

422
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:41,440
serious and and have credibility are

423
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,519
working in a manner that is credible to

424
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:45,839
the mainstream and so the topic could be

425
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:48,320
elevated it's what seti did people used

426
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:50,000
to laugh about seti the search for

427
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:51,920
extraterrestrial intelligence not

428
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:54,800
anymore seti can't do anything without

429
00:16:59,110 --> 00:16:56,720
making news everything they do people

430
00:17:01,990 --> 00:16:59,120
find fascinating but they do it in a

431
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:02,000
very scientific manner um so there's two

432
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:05,919
aspects to this one is my view of what

433
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,319
mufon could and should be the seti and

434
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,039
that's not popular i mean to be honest i

435
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,520
think a lot of people would leave mufon

436
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:15,679
if i were in charge i would go in that

437
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:17,760
direction i would make it truly about

438
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:19,439
what its mission statement is it would

439
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:22,240
be about science and i think the media

440
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,400
over time we would get more media

441
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:26,959
attention we would elevate the field and

442
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:29,360
then we would get more participation by

443
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,520
people who are really serious about this

444
00:17:35,669 --> 00:17:33,200
and we i think we'd be able to gain some

445
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:35,679
ground as opposed to kind of placating

446
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,080
the ufo community and i think that this

447
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:40,240
current administration of mufon does

448
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:43,039
look more to placate the ufo community i

449
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:44,880
think they take it upon themselves to

450
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,840
try to represent and keep the ufo

451
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,000
community together and i think that's

452
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,160
what jan does jan is a people person

453
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,640
he's a great guy and that's you know

454
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:57,039
what he tries to do

455
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:59,200
what gets lost though is that

456
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:01,120
credibility factor

457
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:02,880
and i think that's what that ufo trail

458
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,480
and those people were concerned about

459
00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:06,720
and i had similar concerns when you

460
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:10,000
bring jaime musanon who is trying to

461
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:12,480
push this case that's not only been

462
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:14,960
debunked and once you push a case that's

463
00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:16,880
been debunked it's it's more like you're

464
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:19,120
pushing a hoax he's been called lately a

465
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:20,960
snake oil salesman and that's the type

466
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:23,280
of thing he was doing he was selling

467
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:25,360
some snake oil there so that's a

468
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,559
credibility issue the hanger one problem

469
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:31,039
and and the issue with you know mufon

470
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,960
having hanger one people at the

471
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,640
symposium was the other issue and the

472
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,720
problem with hangar one was they had

473
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:38,880
admitted and jan you know doesn't shy

474
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,039
away from this he's admitted that a lot

475
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:43,360
of what is in hanger one was scripted

476
00:18:48,070 --> 00:18:45,679
it's fiction that was written

477
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,080
by these people it's not fact like jan

478
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:50,480
said we provide them with the facts but

479
00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:52,160
unfortunately they mingle it with a lot

480
00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:55,520
of fiction and so you have he used a 70

481
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:57,280
seventy percent is fact thirty percent

482
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:59,200
fiction problem is it makes it all

483
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:00,640
useless because you don't know what's

484
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:03,120
fact or fiction and one of the issues

485
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:05,520
and i have a real issue with this too is

486
00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:07,200
one of the problems that they were

487
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:09,760
citing on ufo trail in this group and

488
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:12,240
you may remember this is this document i

489
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,080
think they called it document 42 or

490
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:15,919
something like that but essentially the

491
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:18,640
producers came across this sentence that

492
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:20,400
they really liked that was in this

493
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:22,799
purported document that was supposedly

494
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:25,039
real they didn't know much about it so

495
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:27,039
they created a fake document and put

496
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:28,640
this sentence in it and this document

497
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:30,960
was called something like document 42

498
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:33,760
and so in hanger 51 they said document

499
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:36,080
42 and they showed it and they

500
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:38,559
highlighted this sentence it was a fake

501
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:40,880
document and that really is a problem

502
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:43,039
for credibility so people were saying

503
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:45,039
mufon why are you faking documents well

504
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:47,120
it wasn't mufon that fake documents it

505
00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:50,000
was the producers but mufon

506
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,400
wouldn't clarify that and that was

507
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,640
really frustrating and when i tried to

508
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:56,480
clarify it there was like this well we

509
00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:58,799
don't want to upset the producers

510
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,919
at that point really me and the producer

511
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:03,840
certainly didn't see eye to eye on this

512
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:05,440
and i'm really disappointed that they

513
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:07,280
wouldn't come out and just admit this to

514
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:09,440
the public just to speak to it to get

515
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:11,360
move on off the hook but it was a

516
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,880
producers who did that not mufon however

517
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:17,760
this document is an alleged mj12

518
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:20,559
document that i don't believe it is i

519
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:21,679
mean it

520
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:23,280
you know it comes from a lot of hoax

521
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:25,760
documents i don't it's the som 101

522
00:20:29,350 --> 00:20:27,520
manual and a lot of people think that's

523
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,360
real i think stanton friedman thinks

524
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,000
that's one document that is real i don't

525
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:34,400
think the history shows that

526
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:35,760
in some of the doty research and

527
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:37,280
everything that i've done that people

528
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:39,679
can find online

529
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:42,400
but besides that you know it's one thing

530
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:44,240
to

531
00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:46,559
show a document that is allegedly real

532
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:48,159
and make the argument whether it is or

533
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:49,520
not because a lot of your listeners

534
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,240
probably believe it is real um

535
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:54,960
and and i could be wrong i'm certainly

536
00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:57,200
not the authority uh when it comes to

537
00:21:01,909 --> 00:20:58,960
everything um so

538
00:21:05,029 --> 00:21:01,919
uh but the document they showed was fake

539
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:05,039
they created it they admitted it um in

540
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:06,720
the back channels wouldn't admit it

541
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,120
publicly but it was obvious anyways it

542
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:11,360
was uh in the show

543
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:13,360
and so those are the things that people

544
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:15,840
were frustrated about and i can totally

545
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:18,240
understand their frustration i've always

546
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:19,200
said

547
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:21,919
mufon symposium should highlight mufon

548
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,799
work

549
00:21:28,390 --> 00:21:25,280
at our conference at the ufo congress we

550
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:28,400
usually have more move on field

551
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:31,600
investigators state directors directors

552
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:33,039
of this or that

553
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:36,000
we have more of those doing them doing

554
00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:38,240
presentations at our conference than the

555
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:41,360
mufon symposium does they don't they're

556
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:44,400
scared to take this leap of faith of

557
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:46,159
of just presenting their people because

558
00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:47,840
they think yeah maybe it won't fill

559
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:51,039
seats i disagree i think when you're an

560
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:52,960
organization talking to the public and

561
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:55,360
that's how we feel when we we do our

562
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:57,600
conference is that

563
00:22:03,830 --> 00:21:59,120
we

564
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:03,840
to tell them who's good who are who's

565
00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:05,840
what out there and who should i listen

566
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:06,559
to

567
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:09,039
and when we have a cast of characters

568
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:11,440
that come and talk to them as long as

569
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:13,039
we're doing a good job and these are

570
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,240
good prevent

571
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:16,400
presenters giving them information that

572
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:18,159
they're fascinated by they're going to

573
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:19,679
be happy and they're going to come back

574
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:21,200
every year and that's what works for us

575
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:23,360
that's why we're the largest conference

576
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,840
mufon should do the

577
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:26,400
same let me just stop it here because we

578
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,440
have to break

579
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:29,440
we've got more to talk about about

580
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,200
conferences ufo conferences and maybe

581
00:22:38,230 --> 00:22:35,440
cleaning out the speaker rosters with

582
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,240
alejandra rojas of open minds more to

583
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:40,320
come chris o'brien's under the weather

584
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:42,640
with gene and alejandro you're in the

585
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,270
thank you for listening to gcn

586
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:55,900
visit gcnlive.com today

587
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:58,400
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686
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hi it's grant cameron from presidential

687
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:11,520
ufo.com you're listening to the paracast

688
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:20,710
alejandra rojas of open minds joins us

689
00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:23,679
we're talking a little bit about ufo

690
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:25,360
conferences of course

691
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:28,080
he's responsible in large part for the

692
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:29,919
international ufo congress which is

693
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:31,679
happening in february but i had a

694
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:34,000
question here from one of our listeners

695
00:27:38,789 --> 00:27:36,240
at forum.thepowercast.com

696
00:27:41,110 --> 00:27:38,799
in the question bank creepy green light

697
00:27:44,870 --> 00:27:41,120
how's that for a name for you

698
00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:44,880
creepy green light and his avatar is so

699
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:46,320
dark i can't tell what kind of eyes

700
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:47,279
she's got

701
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:49,200
okay so this is a very related question

702
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:52,720
it says how do you see the future of ufo

703
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:56,000
conferences as far as the speakers go do

704
00:28:01,750 --> 00:27:58,480
you feel the trend will be to eventually

705
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:01,760
weed out ban dubious speakers or do you

706
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,159
see conferences continuing to give these

707
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:06,640
folks a platform this is probably a

708
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,960
slippery slope for some conferences

709
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:11,120
because i know first and foremost they

710
00:28:14,870 --> 00:28:14,080
want to get butts in chairs

711
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,880
so

712
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,640
you know that takes us to the entire

713
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:18,720
discussion we've had about mufon where

714
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:21,440
they're tone deaf yeah so i mean and to

715
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:23,279
finish that thought mufon has great

716
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:25,760
people they should focus on their the

717
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:28,000
great research their people do and the

718
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,480
thing is that will fill chairs

719
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,080
and this is what the root of the issue

720
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:34,480
which the you know person asking the

721
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:36,480
question is getting to is that it's

722
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:38,480
extremely expensive to put on these

723
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:40,960
conferences i've tried to go it alone to

724
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:43,520
do a conference and i lost thousands

725
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,600
most people who put on conferences lose

726
00:28:49,750 --> 00:28:47,440
money and when you lose money at a

727
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:49,760
conference it's typically

728
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:52,399
thousands it's not like oh i almost made

729
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:54,240
it i only lost a little bit

730
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:55,760
because of the way it works so for

731
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,080
instance if you don't fill enough rooms

732
00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:00,159
then you have to pay for a lot more

733
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:02,000
whereas if you fill the rooms and

734
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:04,320
certain things are comped and so you can

735
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:06,320
lose thousands very easily and this

736
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:08,080
happens quite often

737
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:09,840
so you go to a hotel

738
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,640
and you set up an arrangement if you

739
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:14,559
have them sell a given number of rooms

740
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,480
and a certain number of people book

741
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:18,720
rooms that goes against your overall

742
00:29:23,269 --> 00:29:22,320
cost that reduces it exactly greatly

743
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:23,279
because

744
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,360
often they'll say if you can fill x

745
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,120
amount of rooms you get all the

746
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:29,679
conference space for free it's comped

747
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:31,600
but if you don't fill that x amount of

748
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:32,880
room you could either pay for the

749
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:35,760
conference space or pay for those rooms

750
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:37,919
that you didn't fill so you have two

751
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:40,720
different very expensive choices and so

752
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:43,520
there's a and i feel you know conference

753
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:46,320
creators go wrong a couple ways one

754
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,720
they're too afraid to fill seats so they

755
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:50,559
choose i think you know the wrong

756
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:52,000
speakers two

757
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:54,080
is that because they're so afraid of

758
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:56,480
losing money they raise their prices

759
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,720
really high and then they don't get

760
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:00,559
enough people and then they lose a lot

761
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:02,559
of money it's counterintuitive you would

762
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:04,320
think if your rates were higher you

763
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:06,159
would get more money but then you don't

764
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:08,000
have as many people come you don't fill

765
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:09,760
those rooms you end up having these

766
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,240
large expenses that's another thing that

767
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:14,159
we do at our conference is i always

768
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:16,640
fight to keep the price low and our

769
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,399
five-day conference

770
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,480
is less than

771
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:22,799
the weekend conference is out there

772
00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:25,440
and so we fill seats and we meet our

773
00:30:30,549 --> 00:30:28,880
numbers and i believe that we then do

774
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,559
better than the other conferences out

775
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:32,559
there financially as well

776
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,240
so when it comes to choosing the

777
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:36,399
speakers i unfortunately

778
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:37,919
they're going to keep getting a platform

779
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:40,399
these dubious people the the problematic

780
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,279
people i think jaime for instance has

781
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:45,600
speaking engagements in the u.s

782
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:47,440
in the future we're not having them this

783
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:48,480
year

784
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,240
largely because of the roswell slides

785
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:52,480
issue issue honestly

786
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:54,320
it's hard because

787
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:56,720
also as a conference organizer at least

788
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:57,840
with us

789
00:31:02,710 --> 00:30:59,200
we don't

790
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:02,720
feature any speakers that we know are

791
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:05,440
lying or are charlatans

792
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:06,640
however

793
00:31:12,149 --> 00:31:09,200
you know we're not the end all

794
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:12,159
to say this so there are times when you

795
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:13,840
know like the person's

796
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:16,720
information is not necessarily the best

797
00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:18,640
but the public really likes them and

798
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:20,960
they have a big following and you know

799
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:24,080
what we are not it's not up to us we try

800
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:26,559
to represent the public and what our

801
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,640
public readers and the people going to

802
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:30,720
the conference are interested in and

803
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,039
what they want to see

804
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,080
as well as what we know is a really good

805
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:37,840
information out there they may not be

806
00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:41,200
aware of uh to present to them

807
00:31:46,470 --> 00:31:43,360
and uh luckily we're often right and so

808
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:46,480
those speakers they also enjoy so it's a

809
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:48,960
double-edged sword unless someone is

810
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:51,440
completely false and another example

811
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:53,679
another person who i i'm usually very

812
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,159
diplomatic and i don't talk um poorly

813
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,080
about some people but some people are

814
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,240
just very dishonest another person i

815
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:02,880
would say is dishonest is michael horn i

816
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:05,279
would never let him come speak at the

817
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:07,440
congress i would be completely against

818
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:10,240
that or i i would you know be very

819
00:32:13,509 --> 00:32:12,640
critical if mufon chose to have him

820
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:13,519
okay

821
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:15,360
the missouri mufon was going to have

822
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:17,440
michael hornon yeah he's the american

823
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:19,039
representative for billy meyer as most

824
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:20,480
of you know

825
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:23,360
and we had someone named margie k

826
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:26,080
from the mufon organization and i told

827
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:28,320
her i'm the heir and chris did as well

828
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,640
hey you can't have this guy this guy is

829
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,480
a completely bogus

830
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:35,279
we exposed him years ago and she had no

831
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:36,960
knowledge of this never checked anything

832
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:39,600
never googled anything yeah but

833
00:32:43,909 --> 00:32:41,200
as soon as this announcement went out

834
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:43,919
people got the word told them what was

835
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:46,480
going on and they disinvited him of

836
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:48,720
course he freaked but who cares

837
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:51,519
yeah he always freaks yet some people

838
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:55,120
just don't know and so um conference

839
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:57,039
organizers aren't necessarily always

840
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,559
thorough researchers um you know and

841
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:02,960
researchers aren't conference organizers

842
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:03,679
so

843
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:08,080
well the difference is though the

844
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,320
international ufo congress is not

845
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:12,880
representing itself as a scientific

846
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:14,880
research organization that follows a

847
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:16,799
scientific method that gives you some

848
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:19,840
more latitude about what you do and i'll

849
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:21,919
go back to some of my experiences with

850
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:24,799
ufo conferences i work with jim mosley

851
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:26,720
the late jim mosley of saucer news and

852
00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:30,080
saucer smear and in the 1960s he started

853
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:32,480
sponsoring a monthly

854
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:34,000
ufo

855
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:35,919
event of some sort in new york city he'd

856
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,519
rent a low-end

857
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:39,840
conference room in a hotel in midtown

858
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,960
manhattan

859
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:42,640
and they'd bring on speakers not all the

860
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:44,480
speakers were the carefully vetted

861
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,480
speakers you think about some were

862
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:48,240
pretty wacky but they had fascinating

863
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:50,880
stories and jim was presenting nothing

864
00:33:55,149 --> 00:33:53,519
more than a place to have a good time

865
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,159
and of course that culminated in the

866
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,000
1967 ufo event the national ufo

867
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:00,480
conference where it was in a major

868
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:02,720
auditorium and they had thousands of

869
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:04,399
people and he still lost money but

870
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,120
that's another story regardless the

871
00:34:11,669 --> 00:34:09,359
point here is he was presenting

872
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:11,679
something that was entertainment he was

873
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:14,159
also known to perpetrate hoaxes in the

874
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:16,879
ufo field to keep the subject alive

875
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:19,520
again he was approaching this as a place

876
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:21,520
for entertainment to have an

877
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:24,000
entertaining experience you know not

878
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:25,599
necessarily presenting people who were

879
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:26,639
known

880
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:28,879
fraudsters maybe just people with wacky

881
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:30,879
claims that's one thing

882
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:33,280
you in the international ufo congress

883
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,879
i've noticed

884
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:36,480
that you've been a little more

885
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:38,480
circumspect in recent years about the

886
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,960
speakers you will allow in there

887
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,720
so there are a couple of choices there

888
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,639
that we might argue over

889
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:46,720
but overall and we'll tell you later you

890
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,679
got some

891
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:49,599
incredible people over there

892
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:54,320
mufon being a scientific organization

893
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:56,639
they just don't care

894
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,119
they care they just

895
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:01,200
uh it's you know it's one of the things

896
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:03,839
that we run across it's uh what is

897
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,240
science and um

898
00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:08,560
you know it for instance when we and i

899
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:10,240
think this is why we're respected and

900
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:12,640
why we get great speakers too

901
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:15,280
is that when we approaches first of all

902
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:16,720
we're very professional but we're

903
00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:18,800
thinking of the mainstream even though

904
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,079
our conference is very much around uh

905
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:23,760
you know where the ufo community feels

906
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:26,160
more comfortable and they come

907
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:28,560
we're focused on the mainstream when we

908
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:30,000
put it together just like when we put

909
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:31,920
together a story we're thinking kind of

910
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:34,079
journalistically and we're thinking okay

911
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:36,320
if we're to present this topic to the

912
00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:40,240
public in an honest fashion unbiased

913
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:41,440
fashion

914
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:42,720
what is this

915
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,760
entail what are the masses who are

916
00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:49,200
interested in this topic or the

917
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:51,040
researchers who are are

918
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:53,280
talking about this topic what are their

919
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:55,839
presenting we don't focus on what we

920
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:58,320
want the public to see we focus on an

921
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:00,320
honest representation

922
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:03,440
and i think that's what we have and um

923
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:04,320
um

924
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,000
because if i was going to be biased it

925
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:07,760
would be more towards the science so

926
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:10,160
that's what we're doing um i think what

927
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:13,200
the problem is is um there's not

928
00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:14,800
a lot of people don't understand what

929
00:36:18,150 --> 00:36:16,560
the mainstream is looking for when the

930
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:18,160
word credibility comes up they don't

931
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:20,960
understand how um you know planet x is

932
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:22,240
not a credible

933
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:24,480
topic or they don't understand when you

934
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:27,520
say uh you know there isn't proof

935
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:31,119
uh of something of of alien visitation

936
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:32,560
they don't understand that they don't

937
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:35,359
understand what credible proof is

938
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:37,440
let's do our break here

939
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:39,920
more with alejandra rojas with gene

940
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:41,839
steinberg chris o'brien's under the

941
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:52,470
thank you for listening to gcn

942
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:54,400
visit gcnlive

943
00:37:02,790 --> 00:37:00,790
conspiracy journal is your number one

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source for the hidden world of the weird

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and strange we bring you

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suppressed technology and a whole lot

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past august was when we spread his ashes

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on the saint croix river i love my dad

967
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but boy was he stubborn he hadn't been

968
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to the doctor in over 25 years his

969
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excuse he simply couldn't afford it he

970
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wasn't a rich man by any means at less

971
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than 107 dollars per month

972
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libertyoncall.org would have been the

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perfect alternative for my father don't

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wait go to libertyoncall.org right now

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your loved ones again that's

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978
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1025
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to freedom106.com

1026
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:30,560
my dad was 59 when he collapsed from a

1027
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:32,240
heart attack late last year just this

1028
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:34,079
past august was when we spread his ashes

1029
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:36,160
on the saint croix river i loved my dad

1030
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:37,920
but boy was he stubborn he hadn't been

1031
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:40,560
to the doctor in over 25 years his

1032
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:42,640
excuse he simply couldn't afford it he

1033
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:44,480
wasn't a rich man by any means at less

1034
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:47,520
than 107 per month libertyoncall.org

1035
00:40:51,390 --> 00:40:49,119
would have been the perfect alternative

1036
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:51,400
for my father don't wait go to

1037
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:54,079
libertyoncall.org right now for not just

1038
00:41:02,470 --> 00:40:55,760
your sake for the sake of your loved

1039
00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:05,349
hi this is james fox from chasing ufos

1040
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:07,520
you're listening to the paracast the

1041
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:15,510
you're sounding like a robot the power

1042
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:17,680
cast yeah i mixed it up there bear and

1043
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:19,839
mix

1044
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:21,839
we were talking further about you know

1045
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:24,240
the logic and the choices behind setting

1046
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:27,520
up a ufo congress or conference and the

1047
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:29,119
things you have to do

1048
00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:32,079
i really want to do here is go

1049
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:33,839
in this segment to the guests that you

1050
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,960
chose

1051
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:36,640
i guess partly you can say this is why

1052
00:41:41,670 --> 00:41:38,079
we chose them

1053
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,680
but some of them just never ever appear

1054
00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:43,520
at a ufo event and i'm looking over the

1055
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:45,520
list of speakers right now

1056
00:41:49,270 --> 00:41:47,119
as we talk

1057
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:49,280
and one person who's going to be there

1058
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:51,680
he's going to be an interviewee

1059
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:53,760
dr jacques filet

1060
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:56,319
he never goes to these events ever

1061
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:59,359
ever ever how did you get him

1062
00:42:02,069 --> 00:42:00,240
luck

1063
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:02,079
i've been trying to get jacques valet

1064
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:04,560
because i'm a huge fan of his um you

1065
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:07,520
probably are a lot of ufo especially the

1066
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:10,480
long-time ufo researchers are some are

1067
00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:12,000
very frustrated with him because he

1068
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:14,800
doesn't like being pinned down to say

1069
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:16,800
ufos are all e.t

1070
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:19,200
he like a scientist says we don't know

1071
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:21,599
there could be very many other options

1072
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:23,440
out there or or things that we haven't

1073
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:24,800
even thought of

1074
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:26,240
but anyway

1075
00:42:30,309 --> 00:42:27,680
it's again i think because of the

1076
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:30,319
journalistic aspect we have a lot of

1077
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:32,560
journalists who are friends last year

1078
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:34,880
were very good friends with george knapp

1079
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:38,319
and that got us bob lazar um we're also

1080
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:40,079
very good friends with lee spiegel these

1081
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:41,920
are like some of our bestest friends you

1082
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:43,200
know out there

1083
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:45,760
and uh lee spiegel has worked with

1084
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:48,240
jacques valet so uh some people don't

1085
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,520
know they probably know if they listen

1086
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,280
to my show i don't know if you've had

1087
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:53,440
i'm sure you've had lee spiegel on we

1088
00:42:58,470 --> 00:42:55,359
haven't had leeds spiegel on we've had

1089
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:58,480
dr valeon a couple of times so some

1090
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:01,040
people might not know that when uh the

1091
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:04,319
un it was brought to the u.n to

1092
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:08,000
look at and create a ufo um

1093
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,480
department essentially it was lee

1094
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,560
spiegel who produced

1095
00:43:17,270 --> 00:43:14,960
that presentation to the u.n

1096
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:17,280
uh when he was a young kid wearing a

1097
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:20,720
polyester i know it was like a

1098
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:22,079
some

1099
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:24,079
can't think of it but he had a funky

1100
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:25,839
suit and big hair and stuff like that

1101
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,800
that's what i'm trying to say but anyway

1102
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:30,400
he was the one who put that together and

1103
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:31,920
jack vale is one of the people he

1104
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:35,040
brought to the un to uh present about

1105
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:37,520
ufos and that's when their friendship

1106
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:38,560
began

1107
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:41,280
so it wasn't until lee approached

1108
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:43,119
jacques and said you know i love the

1109
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:45,200
conference i'm looking for someone to do

1110
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:48,000
a q a with at the congress this year

1111
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,000
would you be willing to do that and

1112
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:52,160
jacques we had asked him earlier this

1113
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,560
year i asked him probably every year

1114
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:56,400
even when i was back with mufon if he'll

1115
00:43:59,910 --> 00:43:58,000
come to the symposium or if he'll come

1116
00:44:01,510 --> 00:43:59,920
to the congress he always says no i

1117
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:01,520
don't do that kind of thing and i always

1118
00:44:05,670 --> 00:44:03,920
kind of slide it in when i feel like our

1119
00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:05,680
relations is better i don't even know if

1120
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:08,400
he really knows my name honestly

1121
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,720
but luckily i have had contact with him

1122
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:12,960
over the years but he really liked that

1123
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:15,760
idea he said that i will do

1124
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:18,079
we were shocked lee was shocked i was

1125
00:44:22,470 --> 00:44:20,480
shocked and we're shocked that it's

1126
00:44:24,069 --> 00:44:22,480
actually going to happen so

1127
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,079
yeah like you said valet doesn't even

1128
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,640
like to go to ufo conferences let alone

1129
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:29,040
participate in them and he has been

1130
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:31,359
getting more and more excited about this

1131
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:32,800
at first i thought it was going to be

1132
00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:35,359
like bob lazar last year was he comes in

1133
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,359
the back door does his presentation he

1134
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,520
sneaks out the back door he's gone

1135
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:41,440
however now he wants to have a table

1136
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,440
that he's going to be sitting at so it

1137
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:45,440
feels like jacques is going to be in

1138
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:47,119
listening to many of the speakers he's

1139
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:48,800
going to be in the vendor room to sign

1140
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:50,720
books he's going to be hanging out with

1141
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:53,839
us all week and then on saturday it's

1142
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:56,160
our premiere event you know lee spiegel

1143
00:45:01,030 --> 00:44:58,960
will do a q a with him on the stage

1144
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:01,040
which is really exciting because that

1145
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:03,920
allows us then to ask valet some of the

1146
00:45:07,829 --> 00:45:05,520
questions we would want to hear and

1147
00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:07,839
anybody listening if you want to email

1148
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:09,680
us some questions you would like us to

1149
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:12,079
ask valet feel free to do so and i'll

1150
00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:14,160
get those to lee because i have several

1151
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,400
i'm giving to lee as well

1152
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:18,960
so it's just really really exciting

1153
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,640
i think it comes back to having a great

1154
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:22,640
reputation um

1155
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:25,280
in this field and that we try we work

1156
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:27,119
very very hard to make sure that

1157
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:30,480
attendees and speakers have a seamless

1158
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:33,200
experience and i think that

1159
00:45:38,150 --> 00:45:35,359
being a lecturer myself

1160
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,160
and if you ask people maybe at least off

1161
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,640
the record they'll tell you that

1162
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,800
being a speaker at an event is often

1163
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:44,400
kind of a scary process because you

1164
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:45,920
don't know if these people are going to

1165
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:47,680
come through with your travel expenses

1166
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,480
and everything and it can be difficult

1167
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:52,319
um but we make sure that it's seamless

1168
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:53,200
and they have a great time and

1169
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,280
everything's taken care of and

1170
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:57,839
our reputation and our friendships uh

1171
00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:00,800
were able to help us get ballet

1172
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:02,560
we're glad to have him there i look

1173
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:04,800
forward to talking with him i only met

1174
00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:06,640
him once though i met him back in the

1175
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:07,839
60s

1176
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:10,480
wow when he wrote his first book we met

1177
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:12,880
him at a hotel room in chicago

1178
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:14,960
and that was a strange strange kind of

1179
00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:17,520
trip because we also went to wisconsin

1180
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:19,280
to see ray palmer

1181
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:20,400
same trip

1182
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:21,440
wow

1183
00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:23,359
what an interesting time

1184
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:24,160
yeah

1185
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:25,839
you've lived through some interesting

1186
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:28,480
times in the ufo history and some wonder

1187
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:29,920
why i'm still here

1188
00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:31,200
let me give you some of the other guests

1189
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:33,040
we have douglas trumbo

1190
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:35,839
who's of course a world-class

1191
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:38,560
special effects guy and mark d'antonio

1192
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:39,839
and of course we know who douglas

1193
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:41,440
trumbull is just looked at the movie

1194
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,839
database about him now obviously some of

1195
00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:45,839
our listeners are going to say

1196
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:48,079
david jacobs

1197
00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:50,000
he's controversial more than i ever

1198
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:51,280
expected

1199
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,240
but you know like i i think you know if

1200
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:56,560
you're presenting the ufo field i think

1201
00:47:02,950 --> 00:46:59,200
you would be remiss if you do not have

1202
00:47:05,910 --> 00:47:02,960
the ancient aliens aspect represented um

1203
00:47:07,589 --> 00:47:05,920
however you feel about it and uh i

1204
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:07,599
personally feel david

1205
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:09,119
uh hatcher childress is probably the

1206
00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:10,560
best person

1207
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:12,400
sir david oh

1208
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:14,400
i'm sorry i got mixed up

1209
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:18,480
yeah david jacobs i think you know uh

1210
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:21,520
he is a important person in this field i

1211
00:47:24,550 --> 00:47:23,440
would say if you get into alien

1212
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:24,560
abduction

1213
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:27,680
that most people know bud hopkins and

1214
00:47:32,309 --> 00:47:29,359
david jacobs i think that they're

1215
00:47:34,470 --> 00:47:32,319
probably two of the most popular names

1216
00:47:35,829 --> 00:47:34,480
and david jacobs then is here to

1217
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:35,839
represent

1218
00:47:42,550 --> 00:47:39,440
um that aspect of of the abduction

1219
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:42,560
phenomena in that what they feel is

1220
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:44,400
going on and how they came to their

1221
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,839
conclusions

1222
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:47,760
so i think it's fair to represent that

1223
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,240
you know it's the the far negative side

1224
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,800
of things um

1225
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:55,440
and and he's also a professor of history

1226
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:57,760
so that gives him some street cred some

1227
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:59,200
credentials especially with the

1228
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:00,800
mainstream

1229
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:02,800
so i think that you know you've gotta if

1230
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,480
you're gonna represent alien abduction i

1231
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:06,400
think you've got to represent

1232
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:09,200
their side of the story

1233
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:10,800
well there's so many different things to

1234
00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:13,760
say about abductions and the reason that

1235
00:48:18,390 --> 00:48:16,079
dr jacobs is demonized is because of one

1236
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:18,400
person who will not be named who has

1237
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,280
spent years years

1238
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:23,280
sponsoring a hate campaign against him

1239
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:24,559
now maybe

1240
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:27,040
we could say look someone's entitled to

1241
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:29,119
feel that they weren't treated properly

1242
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:31,200
but that became obsessive

1243
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:33,040
and that made it worse at the same time

1244
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,079
i don't agree with dr jacob's approach i

1245
00:48:40,549 --> 00:48:38,000
think he's really not getting factual

1246
00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:40,559
information there i think his techniques

1247
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:42,720
need to be revised but it's fair to

1248
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:44,880
present his point of view

1249
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:47,359
exactly absolutely

1250
00:48:51,990 --> 00:48:49,119
and you know we have a counter we have a

1251
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:52,000
dr joe louis who is a professor also

1252
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:54,800
professor of journalism and he uh

1253
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:57,280
also believes in the alien abduction uh

1254
00:49:01,750 --> 00:49:00,000
phenomena however he's on the complete

1255
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:01,760
other end of things where everything's

1256
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:04,160
positive and nicey nice so we're gonna

1257
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:05,599
have a panel where they're both

1258
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:07,839
discussing um

1259
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:10,800
you know i'm a bit i don't know i i

1260
00:49:14,790 --> 00:49:12,559
would not say if someone were to pin me

1261
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:14,800
down and say are alien abductions

1262
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:16,559
happening or aliens extraterrestrials

1263
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:18,480
coming here and taking people i would

1264
00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:21,040
say i don't know that people are having

1265
00:49:25,349 --> 00:49:22,880
and reporting this experience i think it

1266
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,359
deserves mainstream psychological

1267
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:28,240
attention and others

1268
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:29,920
people are claiming to have these

1269
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:32,160
experiences why what is the root of it i

1270
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:34,000
think we don't know i think it's a big

1271
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:35,599
mystery

1272
00:49:39,109 --> 00:49:36,960
but i can't say for sure it's

1273
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,119
extraterrestrial in nature these people

1274
00:49:43,349 --> 00:49:41,520
are convinced it is and

1275
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,359
they've spent their life doing this sort

1276
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:45,119
of research and they have you know if

1277
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:47,839
they have phds i don't um we're also

1278
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:49,440
going to have barbara lamb speak about

1279
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:52,319
it she has a master's in marriage and

1280
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:55,040
their family therapy and she's spent her

1281
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:57,520
lifetime in that field so these people

1282
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:00,240
have credentials um

1283
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:02,960
and so they deserve to be heard and i'm

1284
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:04,480
excited to hear what they have to say

1285
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:05,760
especially

1286
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:08,000
in a panel in a group together

1287
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:09,599
debating you know the nature of the

1288
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:10,960
phenomena

1289
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:13,440
have you heard about the latest change

1290
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:14,480
in the

1291
00:50:20,630 --> 00:50:17,839
infamous x-files conspiracy theory

1292
00:50:23,109 --> 00:50:20,640
yes i i talk about this because we're

1293
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:23,119
going into popular culture but the

1294
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:26,480
x-files influence indirectly the ufo

1295
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:28,960
field in the 90s and early 2000s so of

1296
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:31,280
course the overreaching theory of the

1297
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:34,480
x-files has been that we're being

1298
00:50:39,589 --> 00:50:37,119
attacked invaded visited by

1299
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:39,599
sometimes evil ets

1300
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:43,520
and starting in the first episode of the

1301
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:46,160
reboot the reboot which is a six episode

1302
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:47,440
season it's doing really well in the

1303
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:49,520
ratings the first two episodes doing

1304
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:51,359
really well in the ratings and the first

1305
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,520
episode they go into the

1306
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:55,680
alien visitation theory

1307
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:57,280
and this is continued in the second

1308
00:51:02,710 --> 00:50:59,920
episode to some degree and has it that

1309
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:02,720
yes there was an alien presence on earth

1310
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:05,040
it crashed at roswell they recovered

1311
00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:06,880
alien technology

1312
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:07,680
and

1313
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:10,480
alien creatures getting their dna but

1314
00:51:15,990 --> 00:51:12,880
everything else since then has been the

1315
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,000
result of a plot by some elements in the

1316
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:18,720
u.s government but that actually forms

1317
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:20,559
the basis of a

1318
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:22,640
number of well-known conspiracy theories

1319
00:51:26,309 --> 00:51:24,319
in the ufo field let's go into more of

1320
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,319
that in a moment we've got alejandra

1321
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:29,040
rojas of open minds in the international

1322
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:30,720
ufo congress

1323
00:51:39,190 --> 00:51:32,880
i'm gene steinberg you're in the

1324
00:51:43,630 --> 00:51:42,710
you are listening to gcn

1325
00:51:45,090 --> 00:51:43,640
visit

1326
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:45,100
gcnlive.com today

1327
00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:47,920
[Music]

1328
00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:49,920
attack of the rockoids has been well

1329
00:51:53,829 --> 00:51:52,240
received by critics and readers alike

1330
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:53,839
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

1331
00:51:57,190 --> 00:51:55,280
never forget

1332
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:57,200
a former u.s military intelligence

1333
00:52:02,230 --> 00:51:59,680
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1334
00:52:04,549 --> 00:52:02,240
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1335
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:04,559
help after a terrible battle in outer

1336
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:05,680
space

1337
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:07,839
but the dreams turn out to be true and

1338
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:09,760
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

1339
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:12,480
with a woman whose far away planet is

1340
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:14,960
intent on destroying the earth

1341
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:17,440
and now the gripping tale continues in

1342
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:19,920
the coming of the protectors it's the

1343
00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:22,480
second book of the rockoids trilogy a

1344
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galaxy spanning adventure that pits our

1345
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:26,960
hapless heroes against powerful

1346
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fanatical enemies that threaten the

1347
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:31,119
lives of freedom-loving beings

1348
00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:34,160
everywhere attack of the rockoids and

1349
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the coming of the protectors classic

1350
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science fiction at its best available

1351
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:40,400
now

1352
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:43,599
for more details visit rockoids.com

1353
00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:52,390
hello congratulations for what we're

1354
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:54,559
losing all that weight how'd you do it

1355
00:52:59,349 --> 00:52:57,680
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1356
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1357
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1359
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:06,400
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1360
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1361
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1372
00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:44,390
gcnteam.com or call 877-878-4203

1373
00:53:50,300 --> 00:53:47,270
lose weight and look great with asap as

1374
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:50,310
slim as possible

1375
00:54:03,109 --> 00:53:59,510
welcome back to the paracast the gold

1376
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:03,119
standard of paranormal radio

1377
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:04,400
and now

1378
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:13,510
every time he says the power cast there

1379
00:54:18,390 --> 00:54:15,040
is a different voice coming out of his

1380
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:18,400
mouth i almost think alejandro rojas is

1381
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:19,599
possessed

1382
00:54:25,270 --> 00:54:21,520
yes there are different entities

1383
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:25,280
speaking through me each time anyway

1384
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:27,040
looking at the theory the government

1385
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:28,960
conspiracy theory

1386
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,480
so in a sense x-files is just echoing

1387
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:34,640
a theory that's been around that a lot

1388
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:37,440
of what is happening in the ufo field

1389
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:39,599
is fueled by government efforts of

1390
00:54:42,790 --> 00:54:40,880
course the way they have it is we're

1391
00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:42,800
using alien technology

1392
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:45,280
to build our own spaceships or craft

1393
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:48,240
we're using alien dna to create a hybrid

1394
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:49,920
race

1395
00:54:53,349 --> 00:54:51,760
now how much of that would you take

1396
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:53,359
seriously is a real thing not just

1397
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:54,640
science fiction

1398
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:56,720
well very little

1399
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:58,640
i think that uh you know they went

1400
00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:00,240
online and looked at all the craziest

1401
00:55:04,549 --> 00:55:02,559
conspiracies and they decided how can we

1402
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:04,559
mold these together and connect the dots

1403
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:05,440
uh

1404
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:10,000
direction and they have and i think

1405
00:55:14,309 --> 00:55:11,760
that's exciting for a lot of people it's

1406
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:14,319
exciting for me i love it as fiction i

1407
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:17,200
think it's really cool my only concern

1408
00:55:21,589 --> 00:55:19,520
is like you said i think

1409
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:21,599
that it's not necessarily people within

1410
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:23,520
the us government that are forming this

1411
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,440
conspiracy i think it's supposed to be a

1412
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:27,599
third party that is looking to take

1413
00:55:33,910 --> 00:55:30,720
control like the ball type of thing uh

1414
00:55:36,549 --> 00:55:33,920
of a so it's like this global conspiracy

1415
00:55:38,950 --> 00:55:36,559
i i have concerns that they go so

1416
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:38,960
conspiratorial i hope they aren't saying

1417
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:41,040
that it's the us government that's going

1418
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:43,280
to kill everybody or or something like

1419
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:45,440
some people online believe because i

1420
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:46,720
think that that's

1421
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:50,640
dangerous and i get really disappointed

1422
00:55:55,109 --> 00:55:53,280
in people that think their doctors or

1423
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:55,119
all their civil servants are against

1424
00:55:59,430 --> 00:55:57,359
them are trying to kill them not only

1425
00:56:02,789 --> 00:55:59,440
have my family been in civil service but

1426
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:02,799
these that's the opposite your doctors

1427
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:05,920
your nurses your civil servants have

1428
00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:08,160
often not necessarily with doctors but

1429
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:10,000
certainly with civil servants have

1430
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:11,200
decided

1431
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:13,920
to forgo going into

1432
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:16,480
uh you know corporations

1433
00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:17,520
uh

1434
00:56:23,190 --> 00:56:19,839
where they could get paid much much more

1435
00:56:24,950 --> 00:56:23,200
but instead to work for you to work for

1436
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:24,960
to help better

1437
00:56:30,069 --> 00:56:28,240
uh our nation just like with soldiers um

1438
00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:30,079
and your doctors are trying to help you

1439
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:31,920
they're trying to save you they want you

1440
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:33,280
to be healthy

1441
00:56:37,910 --> 00:56:35,599
you know you go to the doctor every you

1442
00:56:39,430 --> 00:56:37,920
know hopefully on a regular basis do you

1443
00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:39,440
think your doctor that you're going to

1444
00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:41,520
is trying to kill you if you do you

1445
00:56:44,309 --> 00:56:43,040
don't have a good relationship with your

1446
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:44,319
doctor and you should probably go to a

1447
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:45,599
different one

1448
00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:47,920
because at least it's been my experience

1449
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:49,520
with doctors i've known or ones that

1450
00:56:52,470 --> 00:56:50,960
i've gone to

1451
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:52,480
they are trying to help me they're

1452
00:56:56,549 --> 00:56:54,960
trying to heal me and so

1453
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,559
these ideas that people have that all

1454
00:56:59,430 --> 00:56:58,000
these people are after him trying to

1455
00:57:01,349 --> 00:56:59,440
kill him or take over their mind or

1456
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:01,359
something it's just really frustrating

1457
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:03,920
and it's not helpful i think because we

1458
00:57:08,150 --> 00:57:06,079
all really do need to work together and

1459
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:08,160
people get lost and they forget that's

1460
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:09,440
what this country is about that's what

1461
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:11,520
democracy is about everyone getting

1462
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:14,319
involved and working together to try to

1463
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:16,240
improve things

1464
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:18,400
not just assume that they're evil or

1465
00:57:22,789 --> 00:57:20,319
they're reptilian and so we can't deal

1466
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:22,799
with them so let's go buy a bunker and

1467
00:57:27,670 --> 00:57:25,359
some guns

1468
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:27,680
oh well there's my soapbox about that

1469
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:30,960
anyway but uh yeah i don't know i think

1470
00:57:35,109 --> 00:57:33,280
a lot of it you know you have to look

1471
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:35,119
for evidence and proof and you can't

1472
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:37,119
just go off of rumors

1473
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:39,599
and often like when it comes to the

1474
00:57:43,589 --> 00:57:41,359
media you'll hear someone like lee

1475
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:43,599
spiegel or george knapp get very

1476
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:45,440
frustrated when people talk about the

1477
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:48,000
media being taken over and them not

1478
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:49,760
being able to speak their minds because

1479
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:51,280
lee spiegel will tell you he comes up

1480
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:53,599
with his stories george knapp comes up

1481
00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:56,559
with his stories there's no overlord

1482
00:57:59,910 --> 00:57:58,000
telling them what they can print and

1483
00:58:02,150 --> 00:57:59,920
what they can't print

1484
00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:02,160
and it's my experience working in with

1485
00:58:06,309 --> 00:58:04,319
the media that that's the case that

1486
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:06,319
really when you're looking at wanting

1487
00:58:11,910 --> 00:58:09,200
better coverage we have to provide them

1488
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:11,920
better information but just like with

1489
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:14,079
anybody in the public you're looking at

1490
00:58:18,230 --> 00:58:16,880
people who just this isn't their focus

1491
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:18,240
once they're provided with better

1492
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:20,400
information they'll write better stories

1493
00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:22,799
uh although there are the people out

1494
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:25,040
there who like to sensationalize

1495
00:58:29,030 --> 00:58:27,920
um like the uk tabloids

1496
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:29,040
and they're just gonna write the

1497
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:30,799
silliest stuff out there because it gets

1498
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:32,079
them readership

1499
00:58:35,670 --> 00:58:34,000
so if you understand the nature of what

1500
00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:35,680
someone's motive or what they're trying

1501
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,160
to do is then you can work better within

1502
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:40,240
all of these systems but that means

1503
00:58:45,510 --> 00:58:42,480
engaging in the systems and getting to

1504
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:45,520
know how they work not disengaging and

1505
00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:48,720
making assumptions uh that they're just

1506
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:51,760
controlled by reptilians or or evil or

1507
00:58:55,270 --> 00:58:53,839
you know well that is the reptilian

1508
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,280
argument

1509
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:57,359
the other speakers by the way include

1510
00:59:02,390 --> 00:58:59,839
chris rutkowski who of course has been

1511
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:02,400
on our show on number vacations nick

1512
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:03,359
pope

1513
00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:04,960
nick redfearn

1514
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:06,960
you know you've got really a lot of blue

1515
00:59:12,230 --> 00:59:09,599
chip speakers there people who have been

1516
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:12,240
at events but not necessarily this one i

1517
00:59:15,829 --> 00:59:13,839
just think it's fascinating that you got

1518
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:15,839
all these together you have a few people

1519
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:17,760
we might have questions about but i

1520
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:19,119
think overall

1521
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:21,040
you've really got a good

1522
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:22,799
range of people there

1523
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:25,040
yeah and when i look through it one key

1524
00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:27,520
i think one thing that that is true of

1525
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:29,200
all of these people is that they're

1526
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:32,079
professionals they're people focused on

1527
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:35,119
their work that i think are genuinely

1528
00:59:40,150 --> 00:59:37,680
and honestly doing

1529
00:59:42,470 --> 00:59:40,160
work to figure out more whether or not

1530
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:42,480
you agree with their opinions they're

1531
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:45,599
doing their best in a genuine and honest

1532
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:46,559
effort

1533
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:48,640
to come up with more information and to

1534
00:59:53,190 --> 00:59:50,799
share that information and that's what i

1535
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:53,200
appreciate about all of these people and

1536
00:59:56,630 --> 00:59:54,799
really who am i to say if they're

1537
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:56,640
they're right or wrong

1538
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:58,319
you know as long as they're really

1539
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:00,720
honestly trying to do something and i

1540
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:02,480
think they are and that's what i

1541
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:04,880
appreciate about all of these speakers

1542
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:07,920
this is the international ufo congress

1543
01:00:13,750 --> 01:00:10,079
so give us the pitch

1544
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:13,760
when where the congress is in the

1545
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:15,920
scottsdale fountain hills area which is

1546
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:18,000
just outside of phoenix it's essentially

1547
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:20,480
now just a suburb of phoenix so it's

1548
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:22,319
nearby but it is on an indian

1549
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:24,960
reservation so it's gorgeous and that's

1550
01:00:29,190 --> 01:00:27,040
what i mean by this you're you've got a

1551
01:00:31,430 --> 01:00:29,200
little bit of um

1552
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:31,440
seclusion out there and just the most

1553
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:33,839
beautiful desert that you'll ever see

1554
01:00:37,990 --> 01:00:36,240
so and it's a beautiful hotel it's an

1555
01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:38,000
upscale hotel

1556
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:40,240
at very low prices so you get a great

1557
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:43,839
deal and it's fun because the ufoers own

1558
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:46,319
the hotel there's nobody at this hotel

1559
01:00:51,670 --> 01:00:49,680
but people interested in ufos and the

1560
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:51,680
topic and you don't get that anywhere

1561
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:54,799
else february 17th to the 21st so it's

1562
01:01:00,230 --> 01:00:57,680
five days of lectures in fact you can

1563
01:01:02,150 --> 01:01:00,240
come on tuesday actually a day earlier

1564
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:02,160
and watch the films for the film

1565
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:04,000
festival all day long and that's free

1566
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:05,920
and open to the public if you have the

1567
01:01:08,950 --> 01:01:07,359
time and you can watch all the films you

1568
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:08,960
can even judge

1569
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:11,119
the top three in each category short

1570
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:13,280
form and long form are shown on thursday

1571
01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:15,599
and friday night and then saturday night

1572
01:01:19,829 --> 01:01:17,920
is where we have the big awards banquet

1573
01:01:21,829 --> 01:01:19,839
where we have the winners

1574
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:21,839
another fun banquet that we have is on

1575
01:01:25,430 --> 01:01:23,440
opening night which is wednesday night

1576
01:01:27,510 --> 01:01:25,440
where we have a taco bar but really it

1577
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:27,520
is a sit down meal and then you get a

1578
01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:29,680
mingle with speakers and everything and

1579
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:31,520
that's what's nice is that there's a lot

1580
01:01:35,910 --> 01:01:33,440
of mingling that happened we don't have

1581
01:01:38,230 --> 01:01:35,920
the lecturers go too late into the day

1582
01:01:40,230 --> 01:01:38,240
so that people can go and have their

1583
01:01:41,990 --> 01:01:40,240
evenings to get to know each other have

1584
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:42,000
dinner with the speakers or with your

1585
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,760
friends that you haven't seen in a while

1586
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:45,440
and just spend a lot of time with

1587
01:01:50,549 --> 01:01:48,240
like-minded people so that's what's a

1588
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:50,559
lot of fun we have over 20 speakers this

1589
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,079
year we kind of went a little crazy with

1590
01:01:56,549 --> 01:01:54,559
the doubling up so we have for instance

1591
01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:56,559
emily trim who is one of the witnesses

1592
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:59,280
of the rua aerial school encounter

1593
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:00,559
that's exciting and she's going to be

1594
01:02:04,470 --> 01:02:02,559
speaking with a friend of hers that's an

1595
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:04,480
e.t researcher we have doug trumbull

1596
01:02:09,030 --> 01:02:06,400
with mark d'antonio

1597
01:02:11,349 --> 01:02:09,040
i think we have another couple of pairs

1598
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:11,359
there but lee spiegel with jacques

1599
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:13,920
ballet so that just means there's more

1600
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:15,280
speakers and what's really fun about

1601
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:17,280
this is that other ufo researchers come

1602
01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:18,960
so for instance we're going to have

1603
01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:20,559
yvonne smith there she always has a

1604
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:22,240
table she does the experience or

1605
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:24,880
sessions and we have stanton friedman

1606
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:26,400
and travis walton are going to have

1607
01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:27,599
tables there

1608
01:02:31,990 --> 01:02:30,240
jennifer stein vape magazine always has

1609
01:02:34,630 --> 01:02:32,000
a table so we have a lot of different

1610
01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:34,640
people in the community that are there

1611
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:37,599
you and not just you but chris o'brien

1612
01:02:41,589 --> 01:02:40,000
you know they're hanging out and

1613
01:02:43,109 --> 01:02:41,599
people just get to mingle with a lot of

1614
01:02:44,950 --> 01:02:43,119
interesting people in this field a lot

1615
01:02:46,789 --> 01:02:44,960
of their favorite

1616
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:46,799
gonna be fun if they want to know more

1617
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:50,400
about international ufo congress

1618
01:02:57,470 --> 01:02:52,799
where do they go they simply go to

1619
01:03:01,109 --> 01:02:59,190
ufocongress.com simply go to

1620
01:03:02,950 --> 01:03:01,119
ufocongress.com

1621
01:03:05,750 --> 01:03:02,960
for more information

1622
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:05,760
he's putting on his announcer's voice

1623
01:03:09,910 --> 01:03:07,760
but i will do the same thing go to

1624
01:03:11,309 --> 01:03:09,920
ufocongress.com

1625
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:11,319
once again that's

1626
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:13,839
ufocongress.com to get more information

1627
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:16,400
about the speaker roster to make hotel

1628
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:18,799
reservations to make congress

1629
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:21,039
reservations how do you like that that

1630
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:22,960
was excellent and i haven't gone as deep

1631
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:24,319
as i can go

1632
01:03:28,069 --> 01:03:25,920
i can go right down there but then

1633
01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:28,079
people wonder what's wrong with me

1634
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:30,079
i was doing kind of a batman announcer

1635
01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:32,880
thing okay we have those too we have

1636
01:03:37,349 --> 01:03:35,680
alejandra rojas chris o'brien's

1637
01:03:39,270 --> 01:03:37,359
a little bit under the weather he's not

1638
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:39,280
on special assignment just taking it

1639
01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:42,000
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

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comment or question about the paracast

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send it to news at theparacast.com

1746
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that's news at the paracast.com

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and don't forget to visit our famous

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alejandro rojas is joining us as we

1750
01:08:17,430 --> 01:08:14,160
continue

1751
01:08:18,789 --> 01:08:17,440
a question from our listeners here from

1752
01:08:20,950 --> 01:08:18,799
blowfish

1753
01:08:22,390 --> 01:08:20,960
who comes from way on the other side of

1754
01:08:24,630 --> 01:08:22,400
the world not another world but on the

1755
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:24,640
other side first question

1756
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:27,120
what scientific studies of academic

1757
01:08:32,789 --> 01:08:29,920
research into the study of ufos have

1758
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:32,799
been completed in 2015.

1759
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:36,080
alejandro what are the best cases of ufo

1760
01:08:40,390 --> 01:08:37,600
sightings and encounters from

1761
01:08:42,789 --> 01:08:40,400
eyewitnesses from the 1940s until

1762
01:08:44,709 --> 01:08:42,799
present day which one of these would you

1763
01:08:46,630 --> 01:08:44,719
pick that's a lot of

1764
01:08:48,870 --> 01:08:46,640
ground to cover we can do one show on

1765
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,880
all this let's start first has there

1766
01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:50,400
been any

1767
01:08:56,870 --> 01:08:54,960
scientific study of ufos in 2015.

1768
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:56,880
there's been a couple studies i don't

1769
01:08:59,669 --> 01:08:58,640
know that i would necessarily call

1770
01:09:02,149 --> 01:08:59,679
either

1771
01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:02,159
scientific studies to me

1772
01:09:07,990 --> 01:09:05,520
the closest uh scientific study would be

1773
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:08,000
the analysis of the homeland security

1774
01:09:12,950 --> 01:09:10,000
video from puerto rico that came out

1775
01:09:15,510 --> 01:09:12,960
this year we're going to have updates

1776
01:09:18,070 --> 01:09:15,520
presented by robert powell who

1777
01:09:21,030 --> 01:09:18,080
incidentally is a director of research

1778
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:21,040
for mufon although this study that he

1779
01:09:25,829 --> 01:09:23,759
did with other people with scientific

1780
01:09:27,269 --> 01:09:25,839
backgrounds

1781
01:09:29,669 --> 01:09:27,279
put together

1782
01:09:31,269 --> 01:09:29,679
is outside of the mufon scope that's

1783
01:09:34,630 --> 01:09:31,279
independent

1784
01:09:37,269 --> 01:09:34,640
they tried to do a scientific analysis

1785
01:09:40,709 --> 01:09:37,279
and the great thing about their report

1786
01:09:42,950 --> 01:09:40,719
is that they have gotten good responses

1787
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:42,960
from other people who try to do

1788
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:45,520
scientific analysis in this field in

1789
01:09:48,390 --> 01:09:47,359
particular

1790
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:48,400
narcap

1791
01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:49,120
who

1792
01:09:53,110 --> 01:09:51,120
some people might know you know do

1793
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:53,120
they're kind of not narcapped isn't out

1794
01:09:58,070 --> 01:09:56,320
there as much with their information but

1795
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:58,080
they have a group of

1796
01:10:03,750 --> 01:10:01,280
scientists who examine pilot cases and

1797
01:10:06,630 --> 01:10:03,760
this was a case they got wind of but

1798
01:10:09,830 --> 01:10:06,640
they didn't go further with because

1799
01:10:12,390 --> 01:10:09,840
the witnesses were remaining anonymous

1800
01:10:13,590 --> 01:10:12,400
and one aspect of this case which is

1801
01:10:15,030 --> 01:10:13,600
really interesting and there's new

1802
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:15,040
developments on

1803
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:17,360
are where did this homeland security

1804
01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:19,760
video come from why is it out it doesn't

1805
01:10:24,149 --> 01:10:20,960
seem to have gone through a

1806
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:24,159
declassification process and interesting

1807
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:25,360
enough

1808
01:10:31,030 --> 01:10:28,960
billy cox of the sarasota herald tribune

1809
01:10:33,030 --> 01:10:31,040
asked homeland security is this your

1810
01:10:34,470 --> 01:10:33,040
video and they essentially said it was

1811
01:10:36,229 --> 01:10:34,480
yes this is the first time it got

1812
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:36,239
confirmed but they said it wasn't

1813
01:10:42,630 --> 01:10:40,000
declassified prop properly and uh we

1814
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:42,640
can't talk more about it because it

1815
01:10:45,750 --> 01:10:44,400
could give up information to drug

1816
01:10:48,070 --> 01:10:45,760
dealers they're going to know where we

1817
01:10:50,630 --> 01:10:48,080
are and how we do this and that blah

1818
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:50,640
blah blah however the argument made by

1819
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:52,640
the people who did the research is that

1820
01:10:56,310 --> 01:10:54,560
well that video

1821
01:10:58,870 --> 01:10:56,320
everything that's in it is in the public

1822
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:58,880
domain in fact the scu group the ones

1823
01:11:04,709 --> 01:11:00,719
who did the analysis they did a foia

1824
01:11:06,630 --> 01:11:04,719
request to get radar data to confirm the

1825
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:06,640
path of the

1826
01:11:11,030 --> 01:11:08,640
unknown which they did

1827
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:11,040
and that radar data you know was given

1828
01:11:14,229 --> 01:11:12,640
to him through foia that means it was

1829
01:11:16,229 --> 01:11:14,239
publicly available

1830
01:11:17,990 --> 01:11:16,239
so all of this and and people can just

1831
01:11:19,990 --> 01:11:18,000
watch these craft at this airport it's

1832
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:20,000
not like a secret airport in puerto rico

1833
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:21,760
where these guys fly out of there

1834
01:11:24,630 --> 01:11:23,120
they're flying out and you can watch

1835
01:11:26,630 --> 01:11:24,640
them fly and you can track them on

1836
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:26,640
flight trackers so none of that

1837
01:11:31,590 --> 01:11:28,960
information was outside the public

1838
01:11:35,270 --> 01:11:31,600
domain so there wasn't any big risk from

1839
01:11:37,270 --> 01:11:35,280
releasing uh the video but it wasn't

1840
01:11:39,510 --> 01:11:37,280
it didn't go through proper channels and

1841
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:39,520
so there are rumors that people got in

1842
01:11:45,430 --> 01:11:42,080
trouble for releasing this however the

1843
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:45,440
witnesses say that they brought this to

1844
01:11:50,070 --> 01:11:47,040
their bosses they said wow look at this

1845
01:11:51,750 --> 01:11:50,080
weird video we got from our infrared

1846
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:51,760
and their boss said well we don't know

1847
01:11:55,350 --> 01:11:53,280
what is let's send it to the air force

1848
01:11:57,750 --> 01:11:55,360
the air force responded and said we

1849
01:12:00,070 --> 01:11:57,760
don't know what it is it's not ours and

1850
01:12:01,990 --> 01:12:00,080
supposedly these guys were told maybe

1851
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:02,000
take it to some civilian ufo researchers

1852
01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:03,760
and see what they think which is exactly

1853
01:12:07,830 --> 01:12:05,760
what they did and the civilian

1854
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:07,840
researchers put out this report i think

1855
01:12:12,870 --> 01:12:10,080
another interesting aspect is that i've

1856
01:12:15,830 --> 01:12:12,880
been able to speak with infrared

1857
01:12:17,830 --> 01:12:15,840
experts experts who work on those exact

1858
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:17,840
um systems

1859
01:12:22,070 --> 01:12:19,679
that were built for homeland security or

1860
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:22,080
or other defense departments use them

1861
01:12:25,350 --> 01:12:23,360
and these are the maintenance guys who

1862
01:12:26,870 --> 01:12:25,360
work on them every day now they want to

1863
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:26,880
remain anonymous because they don't want

1864
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:28,320
to get in trouble but i was able to

1865
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:31,199
confirm my contacts background and

1866
01:12:34,630 --> 01:12:32,880
everything that i've been in contact

1867
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:34,640
with and he agrees

1868
01:12:39,430 --> 01:12:37,840
mostly with the findings he agrees that

1869
01:12:41,830 --> 01:12:39,440
with a lot of what they have to say he

1870
01:12:43,990 --> 01:12:41,840
doesn't necessarily he says there's not

1871
01:12:46,229 --> 01:12:44,000
enough data to really child the exact

1872
01:12:48,310 --> 01:12:46,239
path or speed of the object but he

1873
01:12:49,110 --> 01:12:48,320
doesn't believe it's a bird or a balloon

1874
01:12:50,310 --> 01:12:49,120
so

1875
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:50,320
i think that's really interesting

1876
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:52,880
there's still work ongoing on that but

1877
01:12:57,270 --> 01:12:55,040
uh i think those guys did a great job as

1878
01:12:59,910 --> 01:12:57,280
far as sticking to

1879
01:13:01,110 --> 01:12:59,920
it's scientific investigation we'll put

1880
01:13:02,310 --> 01:13:01,120
it that way

1881
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:02,320
okay of course

1882
01:13:07,189 --> 01:13:04,960
scientific paper has to be peer reviewed

1883
01:13:10,229 --> 01:13:07,199
and besides being hammered on by

1884
01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:10,239
different people that hasn't necessarily

1885
01:13:15,110 --> 01:13:13,760
uh undergone that aspect

1886
01:13:17,110 --> 01:13:15,120
all right let's move on to one more

1887
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:17,120
thing here the second part of the

1888
01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:19,040
question what do you think of the best

1889
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:20,080
cases

1890
01:13:25,270 --> 01:13:22,719
would you even include roswell anymore

1891
01:13:28,870 --> 01:13:25,280
or are we way beyond that

1892
01:13:30,790 --> 01:13:28,880
i think roswell is a good case i i still

1893
01:13:33,189 --> 01:13:30,800
think it is a good case given all of the

1894
01:13:34,790 --> 01:13:33,199
witnesses that have come forward with

1895
01:13:36,470 --> 01:13:34,800
something to say

1896
01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:36,480
we don't necessarily i don't think have

1897
01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:38,159
anything physical we just have a lot of

1898
01:13:42,310 --> 01:13:40,480
great witnesses but

1899
01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:42,320
in most cases that's the way it is you

1900
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:45,120
just have a lot of anecdotal information

1901
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:47,520
one of my favorites when i think of this

1902
01:13:52,870 --> 01:13:49,120
i think there's a ton of great cases

1903
01:13:55,669 --> 01:13:52,880
really but one of my favorites is 1952

1904
01:13:58,310 --> 01:13:55,679
the sightings in washington dc now there

1905
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:58,320
are not i am convinced there are not any

1906
01:14:04,229 --> 01:14:01,120
pictures or video from that case so

1907
01:14:05,350 --> 01:14:04,239
pictures or video you see from the 1952

1908
01:14:08,390 --> 01:14:05,360
washington

1909
01:14:10,550 --> 01:14:08,400
ufo sightings are either recreated or

1910
01:14:14,229 --> 01:14:10,560
mistakenly from that period they're not

1911
01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:14,239
from that period however we do have um

1912
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:16,320
rupelt's book so the guy who was in

1913
01:14:20,870 --> 01:14:18,800
charge of blue book at this time and his

1914
01:14:23,110 --> 01:14:20,880
accounting of the entire thing and we

1915
01:14:25,270 --> 01:14:23,120
have the blue book files so you have

1916
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:25,280
radar you have jet scramble do you have

1917
01:14:29,430 --> 01:14:27,360
pilots saying i was chasing this thing

1918
01:14:32,470 --> 01:14:29,440
and it could outmaneuver us oh i don't

1919
01:14:35,830 --> 01:14:32,480
know what it is you have um radar you

1920
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:35,840
have blue book officials in the radar

1921
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:38,000
tower watching this whole thing

1922
01:14:42,790 --> 01:14:40,640
going down scratching their heads not

1923
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:42,800
knowing what it is you have officials

1924
01:14:47,510 --> 01:14:44,880
from the air force saying these are not

1925
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:47,520
temperature inversions prior to the

1926
01:14:51,350 --> 01:14:49,440
official announcement coming out that

1927
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:51,360
they are temperature

1928
01:14:54,950 --> 01:14:53,280
inversions that it's just a radar

1929
01:14:57,189 --> 01:14:54,960
anomaly but that doesn't of course

1930
01:15:00,030 --> 01:14:57,199
account for witness testimony including

1931
01:15:02,630 --> 01:15:00,040
the jet pilots so i think that's an

1932
01:15:04,149 --> 01:15:02,640
extraordinary case that

1933
01:15:06,310 --> 01:15:04,159
even rupelt

1934
01:15:08,630 --> 01:15:06,320
who is in charge of blue book said that

1935
01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:08,640
was not a case closed we don't know what

1936
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:09,760
that was

1937
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:11,760
and it was a bit of a snow job that they

1938
01:15:15,669 --> 01:15:13,840
essentially you know just wanted the

1939
01:15:16,550 --> 01:15:15,679
public to forget about it so we can move

1940
01:15:18,149 --> 01:15:16,560
on

1941
01:15:19,590 --> 01:15:18,159
those are some examples of my favorites

1942
01:15:21,430 --> 01:15:19,600
there's other blue book cases we've

1943
01:15:22,790 --> 01:15:21,440
covered like in our magazine or online

1944
01:15:25,270 --> 01:15:22,800
that are great

1945
01:15:27,750 --> 01:15:25,280
i think the iran case i think is a

1946
01:15:29,910 --> 01:15:27,760
really monumental one that's in my mind

1947
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:29,920
because uh john greenwald came and spoke

1948
01:15:34,630 --> 01:15:32,080
with phoenix mufon recently he's also

1949
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:34,640
going to be speaking at the ufo congress

1950
01:15:39,110 --> 01:15:36,719
but he he really talks about this iran

1951
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:39,120
case from 1976

1952
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:41,760
where some iranian jets chased

1953
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:43,760
objects similar to

1954
01:15:49,110 --> 01:15:46,560
the 1952 case the reason that's really

1955
01:15:53,910 --> 01:15:49,120
important is because our embassy then

1956
01:15:58,390 --> 01:15:53,920
inquired for our defense about that case

1957
01:16:00,630 --> 01:15:58,400
and that's on record and so in 1976 way

1958
01:16:03,669 --> 01:16:00,640
after the air force blue book file was

1959
01:16:05,189 --> 01:16:03,679
closed and years aft since the air force

1960
01:16:08,229 --> 01:16:05,199
had been claiming we're not interested

1961
01:16:10,390 --> 01:16:08,239
in ufos this document proves they were

1962
01:16:12,630 --> 01:16:10,400
interested in ufos i'm very interested

1963
01:16:15,910 --> 01:16:12,640
in this iranian case

1964
01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:15,920
so that shows that there was interest by

1965
01:16:20,950 --> 01:16:18,080
the government into ufos and that

1966
01:16:23,669 --> 01:16:20,960
interest arguably continues to this day

1967
01:16:25,830 --> 01:16:23,679
um just not in official capacity

1968
01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:25,840
i will continue with more of this more

1969
01:16:30,870 --> 01:16:28,320
of the most interesting ufo cases

1970
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:30,880
according to alejandra rojas i'm gene

1971
01:16:43,189 --> 01:16:39,669
[Applause]

1972
01:16:47,430 --> 01:16:43,199
thank you for listening to gcn

1973
01:16:49,669 --> 01:16:47,440
be sure to visit gcnlive.com today

1974
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:49,679
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1975
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1976
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1977
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1978
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1979
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1980
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1981
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1982
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1983
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1984
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1986
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1987
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1988
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1989
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1990
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1991
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towards driving more customers to your

1992
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1993
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1994
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1995
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1996
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1997
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1998
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1999
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2000
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2001
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2004
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2007
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2008
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2009
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2010
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2011
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2012
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2013
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2014
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2015
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communities in your area call

2016
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2018
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2019
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2020
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2021
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2031
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2032
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2035
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2037
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2052
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2053
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2054
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2055
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2056
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2057
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2060
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2061
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2062
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2063
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2064
01:20:59,030 --> 01:20:56,550
hey this is marie d jones the author of

2065
01:21:01,669 --> 01:20:59,040
this book is from the future

2066
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:01,679
and you are listening to the paracast

2067
01:21:17,189 --> 01:21:15,189
this robotic thing of yours your robot

2068
01:21:19,750 --> 01:21:17,199
voice seems to get precedence over all

2069
01:21:21,030 --> 01:21:19,760
the other voices you do alejandro any

2070
01:21:22,310 --> 01:21:21,040
reason

2071
01:21:23,430 --> 01:21:22,320
it's fun

2072
01:21:25,830 --> 01:21:23,440
that's it

2073
01:21:26,790 --> 01:21:25,840
just a lot of fun we'll have to have you

2074
01:21:30,229 --> 01:21:26,800
become

2075
01:21:32,630 --> 01:21:30,239
a robot with you in a robotic uniform or

2076
01:21:35,350 --> 01:21:32,640
something really make it work now i

2077
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:35,360
wanted to ask you here about an article

2078
01:21:39,110 --> 01:21:37,360
that you did over an open mind since

2079
01:21:41,910 --> 01:21:39,120
we're talking about the government what

2080
01:21:44,950 --> 01:21:41,920
it knows called the government says it

2081
01:21:47,910 --> 01:21:44,960
has lost more ufo files

2082
01:21:50,950 --> 01:21:47,920
what where how the government lost more

2083
01:21:53,430 --> 01:21:50,960
x-files john greenwald i'm a huge fan of

2084
01:21:55,590 --> 01:21:53,440
than the black vault and this is why

2085
01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:55,600
this story is a big reason why i think

2086
01:22:00,629 --> 01:21:57,920
this story is a big deal and a similar

2087
01:22:03,350 --> 01:22:00,639
one that happened recently so this story

2088
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:03,360
is regarding files from the defense

2089
01:22:08,470 --> 01:22:06,719
intelligence agency in 1996 when john

2090
01:22:10,470 --> 01:22:08,480
greenwald was a high schooler and he

2091
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:10,480
first started all of this this was the

2092
01:22:14,629 --> 01:22:12,639
for some of the first ufo files that he

2093
01:22:16,870 --> 01:22:14,639
got through the freedom of information

2094
01:22:18,870 --> 01:22:16,880
act however some of these files are

2095
01:22:21,030 --> 01:22:18,880
redacted so in other words they're

2096
01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:21,040
blacked out you can do something called

2097
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:23,920
an mdr which is requesting the

2098
01:22:27,830 --> 01:22:25,920
government to re-look at these files to

2099
01:22:30,470 --> 01:22:27,840
see if some of the information that has

2100
01:22:32,629 --> 01:22:30,480
been blacked out has been declassified

2101
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:32,639
so thus we can now see some of the

2102
01:22:36,870 --> 01:22:34,800
information this is exactly what

2103
01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:36,880
happened a couple years ago in a

2104
01:22:42,870 --> 01:22:39,840
document about spy planes that had

2105
01:22:44,950 --> 01:22:42,880
information about area 51 redacted an

2106
01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:44,960
organization i'm sure many people but

2107
01:22:49,350 --> 01:22:47,280
they responded to one organization in

2108
01:22:51,910 --> 01:22:49,360
particular of uh that's more well

2109
01:22:54,310 --> 01:22:51,920
respected they had an mdr on this

2110
01:22:56,709 --> 01:22:54,320
document the government unredacted

2111
01:22:59,510 --> 01:22:56,719
information about area 51 and so it hit

2112
01:23:01,910 --> 01:22:59,520
the news area 51 is real cia finally

2113
01:23:06,229 --> 01:23:01,920
admits it's real so that's an example of

2114
01:23:09,189 --> 01:23:06,239
how the mdr works however the dia has

2115
01:23:10,709 --> 01:23:09,199
recently told john in so many words

2116
01:23:13,189 --> 01:23:10,719
because they're really

2117
01:23:15,270 --> 01:23:13,199
i don't think that it's necessarily that

2118
01:23:17,750 --> 01:23:15,280
they're trying to trick

2119
01:23:20,390 --> 01:23:17,760
john with complicated wording i think

2120
01:23:22,390 --> 01:23:20,400
unfortunately that bless their hearts

2121
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:22,400
they don't write very well and so

2122
01:23:25,430 --> 01:23:23,840
they're not very clear in their writing

2123
01:23:27,910 --> 01:23:25,440
but essentially they're saying we've

2124
01:23:30,229 --> 01:23:27,920
lost the original files all we have are

2125
01:23:32,870 --> 01:23:30,239
the redacted files so if we don't have

2126
01:23:34,790 --> 01:23:32,880
the originals we don't know what was in

2127
01:23:37,110 --> 01:23:34,800
blacked out so we can't un-redact

2128
01:23:39,750 --> 01:23:37,120
anything for you so that's really

2129
01:23:41,669 --> 01:23:39,760
unfortunate that means that dia lost

2130
01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:41,679
their ufo files which is kind of

2131
01:23:45,510 --> 01:23:43,840
ridiculous what makes it doubly

2132
01:23:48,229 --> 01:23:45,520
frustrating is that this happened to

2133
01:23:51,750 --> 01:23:48,239
john last year as well with more

2134
01:23:54,149 --> 01:23:51,760
important files and these are the nsa

2135
01:23:56,070 --> 01:23:54,159
ufo files so these are the ones that

2136
01:23:58,229 --> 01:23:56,080
stanton friedman's are always bringing

2137
01:23:59,910 --> 01:23:58,239
up and showing people these blacked out

2138
01:24:01,350 --> 01:23:59,920
documents and he says look if they have

2139
01:24:03,510 --> 01:24:01,360
nothing to hide why are they blacking

2140
01:24:04,870 --> 01:24:03,520
out these documents what stanton is

2141
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:04,880
showing you is called the yates

2142
01:24:09,430 --> 01:24:07,120
affidavit typically so there's a group

2143
01:24:12,390 --> 01:24:09,440
called cause headed by a lawyer and in

2144
01:24:14,790 --> 01:24:12,400
the 70s they sued for ufo files to get

2145
01:24:17,590 --> 01:24:14,800
them from the nsa because the nsa denied

2146
01:24:20,149 --> 01:24:17,600
their foia about ufo files and they said

2147
01:24:22,950 --> 01:24:20,159
no these documents are too sensitive

2148
01:24:24,950 --> 01:24:22,960
they wrote a report to the judge called

2149
01:24:27,270 --> 01:24:24,960
the yates affidavit saying here's why

2150
01:24:29,350 --> 01:24:27,280
they have to remain secret and the judge

2151
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:29,360
agreed yep the nsa has to keep the

2152
01:24:33,590 --> 01:24:31,360
secret these are not coming out the

2153
01:24:35,669 --> 01:24:33,600
affidavit the the document they wrote to

2154
01:24:37,430 --> 01:24:35,679
the judge is mostly redacted it's all

2155
01:24:39,590 --> 01:24:37,440
blacked out and that's what stanton's

2156
01:24:41,910 --> 01:24:39,600
showing over the years finally they did

2157
01:24:44,070 --> 01:24:41,920
release their ufo files however they're

2158
01:24:45,750 --> 01:24:44,080
all whited out which is less interesting

2159
01:24:47,590 --> 01:24:45,760
than the blacked out so i think they did

2160
01:24:49,030 --> 01:24:47,600
this so stanton wouldn't go around

2161
01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:49,040
showing these blackened out files

2162
01:24:52,950 --> 01:24:51,040
anymore but regardless most of these

2163
01:24:56,070 --> 01:24:52,960
files are whited out there's very little

2164
01:24:58,709 --> 01:24:56,080
information so last year john said hey

2165
01:25:01,750 --> 01:24:58,719
put in an mdr can you now finally show

2166
01:25:03,750 --> 01:25:01,760
us what was in these nsa files and the

2167
01:25:07,110 --> 01:25:03,760
nsa came back with the same answer as a

2168
01:25:09,750 --> 01:25:07,120
dia sorry we lost them we don't have the

2169
01:25:11,910 --> 01:25:09,760
unredacted originals anymore

2170
01:25:14,390 --> 01:25:11,920
tough so that means that all of that

2171
01:25:16,790 --> 01:25:14,400
information whatever it may be is

2172
01:25:19,910 --> 01:25:16,800
completely lost and if you see the

2173
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:19,920
example of the dia file that i put with

2174
01:25:25,270 --> 01:25:22,560
this story it's really interesting it's

2175
01:25:27,350 --> 01:25:25,280
talking about a ufo sighting and for

2176
01:25:29,830 --> 01:25:27,360
some reason large portions of this

2177
01:25:32,310 --> 01:25:29,840
document are blacked out and now we're

2178
01:25:35,270 --> 01:25:32,320
never going to know what was in that the

2179
01:25:37,350 --> 01:25:35,280
nsa files include even more hundreds of

2180
01:25:39,350 --> 01:25:37,360
pages of this information which is

2181
01:25:41,910 --> 01:25:39,360
probably fascinating and certainly

2182
01:25:44,070 --> 01:25:41,920
pertinent to ufo researchers i'm not so

2183
01:25:46,629 --> 01:25:44,080
much of a big conspiracy guy but it's

2184
01:25:48,709 --> 01:25:46,639
like how can you take them serious how

2185
01:25:50,629 --> 01:25:48,719
it makes it hard to believe they've lost

2186
01:25:52,390 --> 01:25:50,639
these documents or is it that they're

2187
01:25:55,189 --> 01:25:52,400
just not willing to share and they're

2188
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:55,199
lying it's fascinating and and it's

2189
01:25:58,229 --> 01:25:56,800
really kind of mind-blowing uh this

2190
01:26:00,149 --> 01:25:58,239
whole experience john has gone through

2191
01:26:02,310 --> 01:26:00,159
and i think it's excellent that john is

2192
01:26:04,470 --> 01:26:02,320
doing this hard work to uncover some of

2193
01:26:06,390 --> 01:26:04,480
this sort of stuff my only problem with

2194
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:06,400
john greenwald is getting involved in

2195
01:26:10,310 --> 01:26:08,639
releasing the project blue book files

2196
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:10,320
and claiming they were unique when they

2197
01:26:14,270 --> 01:26:12,000
weren't when they were already online

2198
01:26:16,790 --> 01:26:14,280
that's not true though that's a total

2199
01:26:19,430 --> 01:26:16,800
misrepresentation of what he did okay

2200
01:26:21,030 --> 01:26:19,440
tell me what he did so what he did is

2201
01:26:23,270 --> 01:26:21,040
there was a gentleman because this

2202
01:26:24,550 --> 01:26:23,280
gentleman came to me as well if i could

2203
01:26:26,550 --> 01:26:24,560
have done what john did i would have

2204
01:26:28,950 --> 01:26:26,560
done it myself and we're still in

2205
01:26:31,590 --> 01:26:28,960
pursuit of possibly doing this but this

2206
01:26:34,310 --> 01:26:31,600
guy got all of the scanned documents

2207
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:34,320
that were on the site called fold three

2208
01:26:38,709 --> 01:26:36,480
of the blue book files and he said hey

2209
01:26:40,390 --> 01:26:38,719
we need to post these somewhere because

2210
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:40,400
fold three doesn't make them easily

2211
01:26:44,310 --> 01:26:42,480
accessible and for a period of time you

2212
01:26:46,470 --> 01:26:44,320
could only download a certain amount

2213
01:26:47,830 --> 01:26:46,480
before you had to pay but the fact is

2214
01:26:50,550 --> 01:26:47,840
that these blue book files were

2215
01:26:53,110 --> 01:26:50,560
available elsewhere so the blue book

2216
01:26:55,270 --> 01:26:53,120
files are public domain they belong to

2217
01:26:57,910 --> 01:26:55,280
you they belong to me

2218
01:27:01,430 --> 01:26:57,920
i've done foia requests and i know very

2219
01:27:03,830 --> 01:27:01,440
well once i post that information i get

2220
01:27:06,870 --> 01:27:03,840
via my foia request it belongs to

2221
01:27:08,550 --> 01:27:06,880
everybody john greenwald knows very well

2222
01:27:10,790 --> 01:27:08,560
once he posts that information it

2223
01:27:13,270 --> 01:27:10,800
belongs to everybody and there's

2224
01:27:15,430 --> 01:27:13,280
precedence people have been sued and

2225
01:27:17,990 --> 01:27:15,440
there is precedence that if you go and

2226
01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:18,000
scan a government document you cannot

2227
01:27:21,590 --> 01:27:20,400
claim copyright over government

2228
01:27:24,149 --> 01:27:21,600
documents

2229
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:24,159
those belong to the people the complaint

2230
01:27:28,709 --> 01:27:26,000
here and i want to just cut to the chase

2231
01:27:31,430 --> 01:27:28,719
is that the particular version he used

2232
01:27:33,830 --> 01:27:31,440
from this particular source they had no

2233
01:27:35,430 --> 01:27:33,840
copyright claim on it and that is the

2234
01:27:38,310 --> 01:27:35,440
problem even though they're going after

2235
01:27:39,990 --> 01:27:38,320
him and that's what it comes down to is

2236
01:27:42,470 --> 01:27:40,000
that they can claim they have a

2237
01:27:44,629 --> 01:27:42,480
copyright on it and they can sue you

2238
01:27:47,270 --> 01:27:44,639
and so then as a john greenwald for

2239
01:27:50,310 --> 01:27:47,280
instance you have the choice do i as

2240
01:27:52,950 --> 01:27:50,320
some guy with a young family who doesn't

2241
01:27:54,629 --> 01:27:52,960
make a six-figure income i'm guessing i

2242
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:54,639
know him pretty well i know that he's

2243
01:27:59,110 --> 01:27:57,360
not well off you know do i go hire a

2244
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:59,120
lawyer and try to spend thousands and

2245
01:28:03,430 --> 01:28:01,520
thousands of dollars that i may be able

2246
01:28:07,669 --> 01:28:03,440
to recover if i win

2247
01:28:10,870 --> 01:28:07,679
or do i just give it up and say fine you

2248
01:28:13,030 --> 01:28:10,880
win the latter is what he did a lot of

2249
01:28:15,590 --> 01:28:13,040
big companies bully people these what

2250
01:28:17,270 --> 01:28:15,600
this way they will they know

2251
01:28:19,030 --> 01:28:17,280
that the person that they're suing

2252
01:28:21,350 --> 01:28:19,040
doesn't have the funds to defend

2253
01:28:23,510 --> 01:28:21,360
themselves so they know that the cease

2254
01:28:26,390 --> 01:28:23,520
and desist will work

2255
01:28:28,709 --> 01:28:26,400
and it's a tactic it's a bullying tactic

2256
01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:28,719
but often if they're going up against a

2257
01:28:33,990 --> 01:28:31,840
bigger fish who has the funds to defend

2258
01:28:35,350 --> 01:28:34,000
themselves they'll just say

2259
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:35,360
not worth it because we're just going to

2260
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:36,880
spend a lot of money and look like a

2261
01:28:40,709 --> 01:28:38,800
bunch of jerks so i don't think they

2262
01:28:43,270 --> 01:28:40,719
would have done this to another person

2263
01:28:45,270 --> 01:28:43,280
but i personally feel like a lot of

2264
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:45,280
other people who were writing about this

2265
01:28:49,750 --> 01:28:46,800
that

2266
01:28:51,669 --> 01:28:49,760
claim

2267
01:28:53,990 --> 01:28:51,679
these are government documents that are

2268
01:28:56,550 --> 01:28:54,000
that do not belong to them they belong

2269
01:28:59,430 --> 01:28:56,560
to everybody so there's no sense in

2270
01:29:00,950 --> 01:28:59,440
trying to assert exclusive rights for

2271
01:29:03,030 --> 01:29:00,960
these things well now i understand i

2272
01:29:06,070 --> 01:29:03,040
just think maybe he overdid it in

2273
01:29:07,830 --> 01:29:06,080
claiming exclusivity because again

2274
01:29:09,270 --> 01:29:07,840
you can get project blue book documents

2275
01:29:10,550 --> 01:29:09,280
from a lot of places this may have been

2276
01:29:12,950 --> 01:29:10,560
a good format

2277
01:29:15,270 --> 01:29:12,960
and i understand that but

2278
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:15,280
you know hopefully this will eventually

2279
01:29:19,189 --> 01:29:17,840
resolve itself in the meantime you do at

2280
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:19,199
google you want to get the blue book

2281
01:29:22,470 --> 01:29:21,040
documents it's certainly out there and

2282
01:29:25,110 --> 01:29:22,480
the thing i wonder about when they're

2283
01:29:28,149 --> 01:29:25,120
not like that they're they're difficult

2284
01:29:30,790 --> 01:29:28,159
as a researcher who uses them often

2285
01:29:32,709 --> 01:29:30,800
i now go to these files that this guy

2286
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:32,719
because i downloaded them like two gigs

2287
01:29:37,030 --> 01:29:35,520
worth of files so i now use that because

2288
01:29:38,950 --> 01:29:37,040
otherwise it was cumbersome and

2289
01:29:41,189 --> 01:29:38,960
difficult and that's what was great

2290
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:41,199
about what john did he had them in a pdf

2291
01:29:46,870 --> 01:29:43,520
searchable format so it made it very

2292
01:29:49,189 --> 01:29:46,880
easily to access and there are amazing

2293
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:49,199
cases in the blue book the blue book

2294
01:29:53,590 --> 01:29:51,280
unknown cases there are some

2295
01:29:55,110 --> 01:29:53,600
extraordinary cases there this is

2296
01:29:55,990 --> 01:29:55,120
interesting you know let's get into some

2297
01:29:57,990 --> 01:29:56,000
of this

2298
01:30:00,950 --> 01:29:58,000
we have all these interesting cases that

2299
01:30:02,950 --> 01:30:00,960
occurred so early on in the ufo field

2300
01:30:05,270 --> 01:30:02,960
and you wonder how many cases since then

2301
01:30:08,470 --> 01:30:05,280
have duplicated those things like

2302
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:08,480
washington 1952 summer 52 one of the

2303
01:30:14,950 --> 01:30:11,760
most incredible ufo flaps ever

2304
01:30:17,510 --> 01:30:14,960
ufos caught on radar simultaneous visual

2305
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:17,520
sightings how many cases when you look

2306
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:20,400
at this group in the 1940s and 50s

2307
01:30:26,310 --> 01:30:23,760
how many cases are as sensational

2308
01:30:28,550 --> 01:30:26,320
in the 2000s anymore i'll ask you for

2309
01:30:31,750 --> 01:30:28,560
that response in a moment we've got

2310
01:30:38,550 --> 01:30:31,760
alejandro rojas with gene steinberg

2311
01:30:43,110 --> 01:30:39,669
[Applause]

2312
01:30:44,430 --> 01:30:43,120
thank you for listening to gcn

2313
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be sure to visit

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gcnlive.com today

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use it to import images from digital

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cameras or from scanners need to do some

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2419
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hi this is nuclear physicist lecturer

2420
01:34:56,629 --> 01:34:54,880
stanton friedman you are listening to

2421
01:34:59,940 --> 01:34:56,639
the parrot cast

2422
01:35:04,950 --> 01:34:59,950
the gold standard of paranormal radio

2423
01:35:07,750 --> 01:35:04,960
[Music]

2424
01:35:09,910 --> 01:35:07,760
so the question on the table going way

2425
01:35:12,229 --> 01:35:09,920
back to the ufo history all the

2426
01:35:13,590 --> 01:35:12,239
incredible sightings that project blue

2427
01:35:15,270 --> 01:35:13,600
book recorded

2428
01:35:16,790 --> 01:35:15,280
are we getting anything near as

2429
01:35:17,910 --> 01:35:16,800
sensational

2430
01:35:20,629 --> 01:35:17,920
and now

2431
01:35:22,390 --> 01:35:20,639
not really and i mean a lot of those

2432
01:35:25,510 --> 01:35:22,400
blue book cases those ones that i'm

2433
01:35:27,750 --> 01:35:25,520
talking about that are great you know

2434
01:35:29,750 --> 01:35:27,760
the blue book unknowns there were a

2435
01:35:32,229 --> 01:35:29,760
certain amount of them and and you can

2436
01:35:33,910 --> 01:35:32,239
rupelt book you you got you guys got to

2437
01:35:36,229 --> 01:35:33,920
look at this it's called you know the

2438
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:36,239
report on flying saucers i think is he

2439
01:35:39,830 --> 01:35:37,840
even says this would have been my report

2440
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:39,840
if anybody bothered to ask me to write

2441
01:35:44,229 --> 01:35:42,400
one about my work for blue book

2442
01:35:46,390 --> 01:35:44,239
this is called the report on

2443
01:35:48,070 --> 01:35:46,400
unidentified flying objects it is

2444
01:35:51,030 --> 01:35:48,080
probably in the public domain at this

2445
01:35:52,390 --> 01:35:51,040
point it is right so check it online now

2446
01:35:53,669 --> 01:35:52,400
here's an interesting thing about it let

2447
01:35:54,470 --> 01:35:53,679
me just mention this

2448
01:35:56,390 --> 01:35:54,480
okay

2449
01:35:57,830 --> 01:35:56,400
there are actually two editions of this

2450
01:35:59,750 --> 01:35:57,840
book

2451
01:36:01,430 --> 01:35:59,760
the first edition

2452
01:36:03,110 --> 01:36:01,440
kind of creates the impression that

2453
01:36:05,189 --> 01:36:03,120
rupell really believed there was

2454
01:36:07,830 --> 01:36:05,199
something to the mystery it wasn't just

2455
01:36:09,590 --> 01:36:07,840
conventional and then he adds three more

2456
01:36:11,030 --> 01:36:09,600
chapters which was published around the

2457
01:36:12,870 --> 01:36:11,040
time of his death

2458
01:36:14,550 --> 01:36:12,880
a newly updated edition where he

2459
01:36:16,390 --> 01:36:14,560
basically says

2460
01:36:18,390 --> 01:36:16,400
in response to the question about

2461
01:36:20,310 --> 01:36:18,400
whether he believes in ufos or whether

2462
01:36:23,110 --> 01:36:20,320
they are real he says

2463
01:36:24,629 --> 01:36:23,120
i'm positive they don't in reference to

2464
01:36:26,310 --> 01:36:24,639
whether they exist

2465
01:36:28,310 --> 01:36:26,320
did you see that chapter

2466
01:36:30,229 --> 01:36:28,320
yeah definitely and i think that's

2467
01:36:33,110 --> 01:36:30,239
interesting i get the sense that he was

2468
01:36:34,870 --> 01:36:33,120
kind of brow beaten into it because once

2469
01:36:36,550 --> 01:36:34,880
he left the question open with the

2470
01:36:38,870 --> 01:36:36,560
original book from what i understand

2471
01:36:41,350 --> 01:36:38,880
there was they they were concerned that

2472
01:36:43,669 --> 01:36:41,360
he had written the report anyway because

2473
01:36:46,310 --> 01:36:43,679
uh it you know they're they're trying to

2474
01:36:48,950 --> 01:36:46,320
close this can of worms and not uh

2475
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:48,960
exacerbate it and then the second

2476
01:36:53,590 --> 01:36:51,280
uh is he probably just got harassed so

2477
01:36:55,189 --> 01:36:53,600
much it seems like about keeping the

2478
01:36:57,270 --> 01:36:55,199
question open

2479
01:36:59,430 --> 01:36:57,280
that he finally just wanted to close the

2480
01:37:00,629 --> 01:36:59,440
book and say okay look there's no ufos

2481
01:37:03,270 --> 01:37:00,639
leave me alone

2482
01:37:05,510 --> 01:37:03,280
now according to major kehoe

2483
01:37:07,910 --> 01:37:05,520
in a book he wrote around that time

2484
01:37:09,990 --> 01:37:07,920
he said that rupell told him he was

2485
01:37:12,870 --> 01:37:10,000
under severe pressure

2486
01:37:15,750 --> 01:37:12,880
from his former air force bosses

2487
01:37:18,709 --> 01:37:15,760
to do something after that book came out

2488
01:37:21,189 --> 01:37:18,719
i mean i could see that because um

2489
01:37:24,070 --> 01:37:21,199
but you know even in his book you get

2490
01:37:27,350 --> 01:37:24,080
the sense that regardless of what they

2491
01:37:29,430 --> 01:37:27,360
thought about the phenomena they didn't

2492
01:37:32,070 --> 01:37:29,440
want the public making a big deal out of

2493
01:37:34,870 --> 01:37:32,080
it and so their their

2494
01:37:37,109 --> 01:37:34,880
biggest priority was just to get the

2495
01:37:39,910 --> 01:37:37,119
public to shut up and leave them alone

2496
01:37:42,629 --> 01:37:39,920
about ufos which was

2497
01:37:46,470 --> 01:37:42,639
really an impossible task a task which

2498
01:37:48,149 --> 01:37:46,480
they never accomplished i don't think

2499
01:37:50,390 --> 01:37:48,159
well it got him off the hook but he was

2500
01:37:52,310 --> 01:37:50,400
under a lot of pressure probably not

2501
01:37:54,470 --> 01:37:52,320
super healthy either he died shortly

2502
01:37:58,550 --> 01:37:54,480
thereafter of a heart attack he was what

2503
01:38:01,510 --> 01:37:58,560
late 30s yeah he wasn't very old

2504
01:38:02,709 --> 01:38:01,520
so it's sad story but luckily we do have

2505
01:38:06,870 --> 01:38:02,719
his book because it tells this

2506
01:38:09,830 --> 01:38:06,880
incredible um story but uh you you

2507
01:38:11,510 --> 01:38:09,840
definitely get the idea that um you know

2508
01:38:12,870 --> 01:38:11,520
in grudge during the because there was

2509
01:38:15,030 --> 01:38:12,880
project sign at first and there was

2510
01:38:18,229 --> 01:38:15,040
grudge and then there's blue book that

2511
01:38:20,950 --> 01:38:18,239
grudge they really they re-looked at the

2512
01:38:23,830 --> 01:38:20,960
ufo files and they kind of claim them if

2513
01:38:25,910 --> 01:38:23,840
they felt there was any question they

2514
01:38:28,870 --> 01:38:25,920
took it out of the unknown category and

2515
01:38:32,149 --> 01:38:28,880
slapped an answer on it which means that

2516
01:38:34,790 --> 01:38:32,159
those that were left as unknown uh

2517
01:38:36,790 --> 01:38:34,800
you know they couldn't as easily

2518
01:38:38,550 --> 01:38:36,800
just um

2519
01:38:41,910 --> 01:38:38,560
to do that with so it means that they're

2520
01:38:43,750 --> 01:38:41,920
strong cases and they are strong cases

2521
01:38:46,470 --> 01:38:43,760
but i think the question was do we have

2522
01:38:50,070 --> 01:38:46,480
those going on right now

2523
01:38:51,830 --> 01:38:50,080
and we sort of do but i think that at

2524
01:38:53,830 --> 01:38:51,840
least when it comes to the military

2525
01:38:55,030 --> 01:38:53,840
they're better at locking those down i

2526
01:38:56,950 --> 01:38:55,040
mean now they can say we don't

2527
01:39:00,310 --> 01:38:56,960
investigate ufos so we have nothing to

2528
01:39:01,990 --> 01:39:00,320
tell you about about these potential ufo

2529
01:39:04,550 --> 01:39:02,000
cases um

2530
01:39:06,470 --> 01:39:04,560
and then when it comes to police you do

2531
01:39:09,030 --> 01:39:06,480
still see some of those but they really

2532
01:39:10,229 --> 01:39:09,040
come from the media i think it was

2533
01:39:12,629 --> 01:39:10,239
michigan

2534
01:39:15,270 --> 01:39:12,639
which was impressive a ufo case where

2535
01:39:17,270 --> 01:39:15,280
the police um representative

2536
01:39:19,430 --> 01:39:17,280
uh had spoke to the press and he said

2537
01:39:20,790 --> 01:39:19,440
yeah our guys saw it too and we don't

2538
01:39:23,189 --> 01:39:20,800
know what it was

2539
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:23,199
and that was pretty impressive but yeah

2540
01:39:26,870 --> 01:39:25,280
the cases so i think for those reasons

2541
01:39:29,109 --> 01:39:26,880
because people don't talk about them as

2542
01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:29,119
much they're more clamped down narcap

2543
01:39:32,709 --> 01:39:30,719
who we talked about who researches the

2544
01:39:35,830 --> 01:39:32,719
pilot cases they don't really share

2545
01:39:37,750 --> 01:39:35,840
their findings or or their cases

2546
01:39:40,709 --> 01:39:37,760
so we don't have a whole lot of pilot

2547
01:39:43,830 --> 01:39:40,719
cases you have some strong ones like um

2548
01:39:46,470 --> 01:39:43,840
obama's ex pilot talking about ufos

2549
01:39:49,270 --> 01:39:46,480
cases but then we have some others that

2550
01:39:52,629 --> 01:39:49,280
happen like chicago o'hare i think was

2551
01:39:55,750 --> 01:39:52,639
an amazing case that was what 2008

2552
01:39:57,910 --> 01:39:55,760
when the ufo hovered allegedly this disc

2553
01:40:00,229 --> 01:39:57,920
shaped object hovering over one of the

2554
01:40:02,790 --> 01:40:00,239
gates at chicago o'hare airport the

2555
01:40:04,870 --> 01:40:02,800
united workers it was over a united gate

2556
01:40:06,629 --> 01:40:04,880
and some pilots saw it

2557
01:40:09,189 --> 01:40:06,639
and then it shot up and punched a hole

2558
01:40:11,990 --> 01:40:09,199
through the clouds and um that the

2559
01:40:14,070 --> 01:40:12,000
united personnel um were told not to

2560
01:40:17,270 --> 01:40:14,080
talk about it

2561
01:40:18,470 --> 01:40:17,280
well that is certainly one way

2562
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:18,480
yep

2563
01:40:22,310 --> 01:40:20,400
i think that they may happen we just

2564
01:40:23,830 --> 01:40:22,320
don't hear about him

2565
01:40:25,669 --> 01:40:23,840
well they certainly got out of the game

2566
01:40:28,390 --> 01:40:25,679
and certainly that was

2567
01:40:30,709 --> 01:40:28,400
a really smart way to

2568
01:40:32,950 --> 01:40:30,719
dump the ufo phenomenon completely and

2569
01:40:34,709 --> 01:40:32,960
that of course was in large part what

2570
01:40:36,390 --> 01:40:34,719
they did as a result of the condon

2571
01:40:39,669 --> 01:40:36,400
report

2572
01:40:41,590 --> 01:40:39,679
right which was mostly psychologically

2573
01:40:43,990 --> 01:40:41,600
oriented it kind of said that it kind of

2574
01:40:45,669 --> 01:40:44,000
said um we don't know if it's real or

2575
01:40:47,350 --> 01:40:45,679
not we don't care

2576
01:40:49,350 --> 01:40:47,360
either way we have to

2577
01:40:51,669 --> 01:40:49,360
have the public you know

2578
01:40:53,430 --> 01:40:51,679
quit uh getting freaked out about it

2579
01:40:54,709 --> 01:40:53,440
because it could cause a lot of problems

2580
01:40:57,590 --> 01:40:54,719
for the government

2581
01:40:59,590 --> 01:40:57,600
um so we've gotta kind of dissuade them

2582
01:41:01,910 --> 01:40:59,600
and or or

2583
01:41:04,790 --> 01:41:01,920
you know make them look elsewhere

2584
01:41:06,790 --> 01:41:04,800
which many have attempted to do

2585
01:41:07,990 --> 01:41:06,800
which may have worked for the media for

2586
01:41:10,629 --> 01:41:08,000
a while but

2587
01:41:12,550 --> 01:41:10,639
hasn't worked overall but one thing i

2588
01:41:14,709 --> 01:41:12,560
think is interesting is uh that's one

2589
01:41:16,070 --> 01:41:14,719
thing i appreciate about nick pope who's

2590
01:41:18,790 --> 01:41:16,080
going to be speaking at the conference

2591
01:41:21,750 --> 01:41:18,800
is that in the 90s he was officially

2592
01:41:24,070 --> 01:41:21,760
looking at ufo cases uh for the uk

2593
01:41:26,790 --> 01:41:24,080
ministry of defense and he talks about

2594
01:41:28,550 --> 01:41:26,800
several good cases that he thinks were

2595
01:41:30,950 --> 01:41:28,560
really interesting in fact one in the

2596
01:41:32,629 --> 01:41:30,960
90s i think it's the kosford

2597
01:41:35,109 --> 01:41:32,639
case where there were military and

2598
01:41:37,030 --> 01:41:35,119
police who had seen objects

2599
01:41:39,030 --> 01:41:37,040
and then another case from the 90s of

2600
01:41:42,390 --> 01:41:39,040
course is the belgium

2601
01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:42,400
triangle wave where the belgian general

2602
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:44,400
wilford de brauer still talks about

2603
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:46,560
their their investigation

2604
01:41:50,950 --> 01:41:48,320
of that case a very thorough and

2605
01:41:53,030 --> 01:41:50,960
professionally organized investigation

2606
01:41:55,669 --> 01:41:53,040
in which they spoke with very many

2607
01:41:58,229 --> 01:41:55,679
military and police uh witnesses among

2608
01:42:01,830 --> 01:41:58,239
others who had seen these triangle

2609
01:42:03,990 --> 01:42:01,840
shaped uh objects flying around so um

2610
01:42:05,510 --> 01:42:04,000
the cases are fewer and far between in

2611
01:42:07,350 --> 01:42:05,520
that you know there are less official

2612
01:42:08,870 --> 01:42:07,360
sources and um

2613
01:42:11,189 --> 01:42:08,880
we don't have a blue book we don't have

2614
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:11,199
an organization with the resources that

2615
01:42:15,750 --> 01:42:13,679
blue book had as feeble as

2616
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:15,760
as the resources were that blue book had

2617
01:42:19,750 --> 01:42:17,440
they were still

2618
01:42:22,149 --> 01:42:19,760
more resources than for instance a mufon

2619
01:42:24,950 --> 01:42:22,159
has which is a

2620
01:42:26,310 --> 01:42:24,960
volunteer organization where people

2621
01:42:29,830 --> 01:42:26,320
when they have

2622
01:42:31,510 --> 01:42:29,840
time investigate this stuff and uh these

2623
01:42:34,149 --> 01:42:31,520
are typically people with children and

2624
01:42:36,229 --> 01:42:34,159
family and jobs and who has the time to

2625
01:42:37,990 --> 01:42:36,239
do anything when when you're managing

2626
01:42:40,149 --> 01:42:38,000
your life so

2627
01:42:44,870 --> 01:42:40,159
you know the the resources towards

2628
01:42:47,109 --> 01:42:44,880
looking uh for ufos has been feeble

2629
01:42:49,109 --> 01:42:47,119
so unfortunate and that's i guess the

2630
01:42:52,629 --> 01:42:49,119
problem we have with mufon mufan's been

2631
01:42:54,470 --> 01:42:52,639
around for what 58 years

2632
01:42:58,070 --> 01:42:54,480
what's going on

2633
01:43:00,870 --> 01:42:58,080
since 1916 i believe uh i mean they were

2634
01:43:02,470 --> 01:43:00,880
a different they were midwest ufo

2635
01:43:03,750 --> 01:43:02,480
uh

2636
01:43:05,830 --> 01:43:03,760
um

2637
01:43:08,229 --> 01:43:05,840
network at first and then they changed

2638
01:43:11,189 --> 01:43:08,239
over to mutual when they

2639
01:43:14,550 --> 01:43:11,199
they're uh they covered the country and

2640
01:43:16,790 --> 01:43:14,560
they merged with other ufo organizations

2641
01:43:19,990 --> 01:43:16,800
and uh yeah

2642
01:43:22,830 --> 01:43:20,000
and we've had others come along kufos uh

2643
01:43:25,430 --> 01:43:22,840
which started by jl and heineck or

2644
01:43:27,109 --> 01:43:25,440
nycap uh which you talked about kehoe

2645
01:43:29,030 --> 01:43:27,119
was started by him and that had a lot of

2646
01:43:30,629 --> 01:43:29,040
he actually didn't start nightcap it was

2647
01:43:33,430 --> 01:43:30,639
started by a guy named

2648
01:43:36,629 --> 01:43:33,440
t townsend brown that's right and he was

2649
01:43:39,750 --> 01:43:36,639
a guy he was into anti-gravity research

2650
01:43:41,750 --> 01:43:39,760
the organization went on hard times

2651
01:43:44,550 --> 01:43:41,760
and kehoe took it over and then added

2652
01:43:46,390 --> 01:43:44,560
all his military buddies to the board of

2653
01:43:49,830 --> 01:43:46,400
directors and that made a lot of people

2654
01:43:52,550 --> 01:43:49,840
suspect it was just a government front

2655
01:43:55,350 --> 01:43:52,560
designed to deflect attention

2656
01:43:59,030 --> 01:43:55,360
well kehoe was cert certainly not

2657
01:44:00,790 --> 01:43:59,040
someone to deflect attention um kehoe i

2658
01:44:03,109 --> 01:44:00,800
think was very good at

2659
01:44:05,990 --> 01:44:03,119
getting people's attention with claims

2660
01:44:07,590 --> 01:44:06,000
that many people thought were

2661
01:44:09,030 --> 01:44:07,600
kind of

2662
01:44:10,870 --> 01:44:09,040
you know

2663
01:44:14,470 --> 01:44:10,880
sensational

2664
01:44:16,390 --> 01:44:14,480
so he had a lot of attention on him

2665
01:44:18,950 --> 01:44:16,400
but i think he had more attention than

2666
01:44:20,790 --> 01:44:18,960
the organization did overall

2667
01:44:22,870 --> 01:44:20,800
well he was donald kehoe he was a

2668
01:44:25,109 --> 01:44:22,880
best-selling author i think that was the

2669
01:44:26,870 --> 01:44:25,119
reason i got a story by the way i've

2670
01:44:29,109 --> 01:44:26,880
told this in the power cast before maybe

2671
01:44:32,070 --> 01:44:29,119
you want to respond to it and that is

2672
01:44:33,910 --> 01:44:32,080
that in the early 50s kehoe was in

2673
01:44:36,550 --> 01:44:33,920
direct communication with project blue

2674
01:44:39,830 --> 01:44:36,560
book he talked with their

2675
01:44:41,590 --> 01:44:39,840
pr director a guy named al chop

2676
01:44:42,470 --> 01:44:41,600
and they were giving him cases over the

2677
01:44:45,030 --> 01:44:42,480
phone

2678
01:44:46,310 --> 01:44:45,040
and then a young guy from

2679
01:44:49,270 --> 01:44:46,320
back east

2680
01:44:51,590 --> 01:44:49,280
goes to washington d.c guy named james w

2681
01:44:53,270 --> 01:44:51,600
mostly he's going to write a ufo book

2682
01:44:55,189 --> 01:44:53,280
which he never wrote i mean he did have

2683
01:44:57,590 --> 01:44:55,199
this book called shockingly close to the

2684
01:44:59,990 --> 01:44:57,600
truth that was partly based on the notes

2685
01:45:01,109 --> 01:45:00,000
but his original book was never

2686
01:45:03,030 --> 01:45:01,119
published

2687
01:45:05,430 --> 01:45:03,040
and he goes in there and they let him in

2688
01:45:07,430 --> 01:45:05,440
the air force blue book headquarters and

2689
01:45:09,510 --> 01:45:07,440
they show him the files

2690
01:45:11,590 --> 01:45:09,520
and he's allowed to

2691
01:45:14,790 --> 01:45:11,600
use the office typewriter

2692
01:45:16,790 --> 01:45:14,800
and take as much as he could type

2693
01:45:18,950 --> 01:45:16,800
now this got to be a pretty interesting

2694
01:45:21,350 --> 01:45:18,960
situation i'll tell you why in a moment

2695
01:45:28,070 --> 01:45:21,360
we have alejandra rojas i'm gene

2696
01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:32,709
thank you for listening to gcn

2697
01:45:37,189 --> 01:45:33,629
visit

2698
01:45:40,950 --> 01:45:38,950
first game attack of the rockoids and it

2699
01:45:42,310 --> 01:45:40,960
was a critically acclaimed success and

2700
01:45:44,229 --> 01:45:42,320
now there is the coming of the

2701
01:45:46,470 --> 01:45:44,239
protectors a former military

2702
01:45:48,629 --> 01:45:46,480
intelligence man is contacted by a space

2703
01:45:51,189 --> 01:45:48,639
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

2704
01:45:52,790 --> 01:45:51,199
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

2705
01:45:55,030 --> 01:45:52,800
her distant planet are planning to

2706
01:45:57,590 --> 01:45:55,040
conquer the earth this is gripping

2707
01:45:59,430 --> 01:45:57,600
science fiction of the classic kind

2708
01:46:01,470 --> 01:45:59,440
attack of the rockoids and the coming of

2709
01:46:04,350 --> 01:46:01,480
the protectors find out more at

2710
01:46:06,790 --> 01:46:04,360
rockoids.com that's rockoids

2711
01:46:09,189 --> 01:46:06,800
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[Music]

2746
01:47:52,629 --> 01:47:48,950
welcome back to the paracast the gold

2747
01:47:53,910 --> 01:47:52,639
standard of paranormal radio

2748
01:48:00,629 --> 01:47:53,920
and now

2749
01:48:04,149 --> 01:48:02,149
so let me tell you about the story with

2750
01:48:06,870 --> 01:48:04,159
jim mosley in project blue book in the

2751
01:48:08,709 --> 01:48:06,880
early 50s but first to tell you that we

2752
01:48:09,910 --> 01:48:08,719
have a second radio show we want you to

2753
01:48:12,790 --> 01:48:09,920
listen to

2754
01:48:14,790 --> 01:48:12,800
and this special project called

2755
01:48:16,950 --> 01:48:14,800
the power cast plus is a way for you to

2756
01:48:19,030 --> 01:48:16,960
really support the show personally you

2757
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:19,040
get a high resolution version of this

2758
01:48:22,149 --> 01:48:19,920
show

2759
01:48:24,629 --> 01:48:22,159
free of the network ads after the power

2760
01:48:26,790 --> 01:48:24,639
cast show transcripts videos coming

2761
01:48:28,310 --> 01:48:26,800
we've already got one great video up

2762
01:48:29,990 --> 01:48:28,320
there check it out plus

2763
01:48:32,870 --> 01:48:30,000
stopthepowercast.com

2764
01:48:33,830 --> 01:48:32,880
plus.powercast.com

2765
01:48:36,310 --> 01:48:33,840
so

2766
01:48:39,750 --> 01:48:36,320
by any extent here we've got

2767
01:48:41,030 --> 01:48:39,760
jim mosley and jim mosley is goes to the

2768
01:48:42,629 --> 01:48:41,040
air force

2769
01:48:44,790 --> 01:48:42,639
and he personally

2770
01:48:46,950 --> 01:48:44,800
types out all these cases the ones that

2771
01:48:49,510 --> 01:48:46,960
are interesting and wherever he could

2772
01:48:51,430 --> 01:48:49,520
type him takes with him fine

2773
01:48:53,350 --> 01:48:51,440
kehoe's getting this stuff on the phone

2774
01:48:55,430 --> 01:48:53,360
from people like al chop

2775
01:48:57,350 --> 01:48:55,440
kehoe learns

2776
01:49:01,910 --> 01:48:57,360
what mosley's doing

2777
01:49:03,350 --> 01:49:01,920
talk about flip out time he flips out

2778
01:49:04,709 --> 01:49:03,360
how could you let him have this

2779
01:49:06,870 --> 01:49:04,719
information

2780
01:49:07,910 --> 01:49:06,880
and so they shut the doors

2781
01:49:10,550 --> 01:49:07,920
to

2782
01:49:12,790 --> 01:49:10,560
getting this information so freely

2783
01:49:15,590 --> 01:49:12,800
because kehoe complained

2784
01:49:17,270 --> 01:49:15,600
all because of jim mosley and mostly

2785
01:49:19,430 --> 01:49:17,280
thought at the time

2786
01:49:20,629 --> 01:49:19,440
it was a matter of jealousy

2787
01:49:22,070 --> 01:49:20,639
i don't know i'm not going to say

2788
01:49:24,470 --> 01:49:22,080
anything about that

2789
01:49:26,550 --> 01:49:24,480
i think it's totally unfair

2790
01:49:28,310 --> 01:49:26,560
yeah i mean it sounds like you know a

2791
01:49:29,229 --> 01:49:28,320
story that would happen today with all

2792
01:49:35,030 --> 01:49:29,239
the

2793
01:49:36,390 --> 01:49:35,040
field if i can't have it nobody can type

2794
01:49:39,030 --> 01:49:36,400
of attitude

2795
01:49:40,790 --> 01:49:39,040
which happens sometimes and um

2796
01:49:42,709 --> 01:49:40,800
which is frustrating

2797
01:49:43,990 --> 01:49:42,719
where one person can ruin it for

2798
01:49:46,470 --> 01:49:44,000
everybody

2799
01:49:48,550 --> 01:49:46,480
well the thing i wonder about here is

2800
01:49:52,310 --> 01:49:48,560
how much cooperation do we have in the

2801
01:49:55,350 --> 01:49:52,320
ufo field these days we want mufon to go

2802
01:49:58,070 --> 01:49:55,360
out there saying they're scientific

2803
01:50:02,550 --> 01:49:58,080
that in a sense this is the premier

2804
01:50:04,709 --> 01:50:02,560
organization the largest the oldest etc

2805
01:50:05,510 --> 01:50:04,719
that doesn't help with cooperation

2806
01:50:07,350 --> 01:50:05,520
well

2807
01:50:09,910 --> 01:50:07,360
i guess it depends on what you mean

2808
01:50:12,550 --> 01:50:09,920
because i think if anything for better

2809
01:50:13,669 --> 01:50:12,560
or worse that's kind of jan's

2810
01:50:17,109 --> 01:50:13,679
idea

2811
01:50:17,830 --> 01:50:17,119
and it could be that i think that's what

2812
01:50:19,510 --> 01:50:17,840
is

2813
01:50:21,830 --> 01:50:19,520
perhaps what frustrates a lot of people

2814
01:50:25,669 --> 01:50:21,840
is i think jan wants to cooperate with

2815
01:50:28,310 --> 01:50:25,679
everybody i think jan wants mufon to be

2816
01:50:30,870 --> 01:50:28,320
that umbrella organization and he wants

2817
01:50:33,030 --> 01:50:30,880
to do what he can for everyone even if

2818
01:50:35,830 --> 01:50:33,040
what people are doing falls outside of

2819
01:50:38,390 --> 01:50:35,840
the the scope of the scientific

2820
01:50:41,430 --> 01:50:38,400
investigation and that's what makes it

2821
01:50:44,870 --> 01:50:41,440
difficult by doing that then he lets in

2822
01:50:46,229 --> 01:50:44,880
perhaps the organization have some scope

2823
01:50:48,470 --> 01:50:46,239
creep where they're getting into areas

2824
01:50:51,030 --> 01:50:48,480
that are not necessarily scientific i

2825
01:50:53,669 --> 01:50:51,040
think he's trying to work with jaime and

2826
01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:53,679
others and that's what gets him uh in

2827
01:50:57,270 --> 01:50:55,360
trouble with some people

2828
01:50:59,510 --> 01:50:57,280
the feeling is that he's not being

2829
01:51:01,990 --> 01:50:59,520
discriminatory enough he's not being

2830
01:51:04,229 --> 01:51:02,000
careful circumspect about

2831
01:51:05,910 --> 01:51:04,239
whom he's cooperating with

2832
01:51:07,109 --> 01:51:05,920
right because he's trying to cooperate

2833
01:51:10,070 --> 01:51:07,119
with everyone

2834
01:51:12,390 --> 01:51:10,080
so that i guess it's difficult when

2835
01:51:16,229 --> 01:51:12,400
you're running an organization like that

2836
01:51:18,629 --> 01:51:16,239
and necessarily what to do and i can see

2837
01:51:20,790 --> 01:51:18,639
the argument either way

2838
01:51:23,109 --> 01:51:20,800
my argument of course used to be that

2839
01:51:26,629 --> 01:51:23,119
move on can't be that umbrella

2840
01:51:29,030 --> 01:51:26,639
organization and keep to its mission

2841
01:51:31,270 --> 01:51:29,040
whereas everybody wanted mufon to be

2842
01:51:33,669 --> 01:51:31,280
that i just felt mufon couldn't and it

2843
01:51:35,669 --> 01:51:33,679
wasn't fair to people asked to ask mufon

2844
01:51:36,629 --> 01:51:35,679
to do that if you feel

2845
01:51:39,750 --> 01:51:36,639
that

2846
01:51:41,990 --> 01:51:39,760
this needs to be done then go do it go

2847
01:51:44,550 --> 01:51:42,000
start your own organization find an

2848
01:51:46,950 --> 01:51:44,560
organization that does this but with

2849
01:51:49,990 --> 01:51:46,960
limited resources it's difficult for

2850
01:51:52,629 --> 01:51:50,000
mufon to do everything that's why i felt

2851
01:51:53,990 --> 01:51:52,639
you know it was best perhaps for a mufon

2852
01:51:56,550 --> 01:51:54,000
to focus on

2853
01:51:58,310 --> 01:51:56,560
less and more credible kind of more

2854
01:52:01,669 --> 01:51:58,320
scientific research

2855
01:52:02,629 --> 01:52:01,679
um and jan's ideas is opposite he wants

2856
01:52:08,790 --> 01:52:02,639
to

2857
01:52:10,790 --> 01:52:08,800
mufon and by doing that

2858
01:52:12,470 --> 01:52:10,800
uh you know you associate yourself with

2859
01:52:15,189 --> 01:52:12,480
people or or

2860
01:52:16,550 --> 01:52:15,199
things the topics that you know others

2861
01:52:19,189 --> 01:52:16,560
are going to be

2862
01:52:22,390 --> 01:52:19,199
disappointed about you can't please

2863
01:52:25,030 --> 01:52:22,400
everyone and in fact you know with mufon

2864
01:52:27,510 --> 01:52:25,040
and its membership i think my idea of

2865
01:52:29,910 --> 01:52:27,520
being more scientific might just

2866
01:52:30,870 --> 01:52:29,920
might make more people upset than jan's

2867
01:52:33,109 --> 01:52:30,880
method

2868
01:52:34,149 --> 01:52:33,119
to be honest you know who's to say who's

2869
01:52:36,709 --> 01:52:34,159
right

2870
01:52:39,830 --> 01:52:36,719
definitely who takes the best approach

2871
01:52:41,830 --> 01:52:39,840
but in terms of various organizations

2872
01:52:45,030 --> 01:52:41,840
about ufos

2873
01:52:47,030 --> 01:52:45,040
the thing here is that we have all sorts

2874
01:52:49,589 --> 01:52:47,040
of different viewpoints

2875
01:52:53,109 --> 01:52:49,599
as to what to favor

2876
01:52:54,629 --> 01:52:53,119
mufon tends to be in the et camp

2877
01:52:57,109 --> 01:52:54,639
and you almost think from the way they

2878
01:52:58,890 --> 01:52:57,119
run the organization it's all about

2879
01:53:00,229 --> 01:52:58,900
proving e.t

2880
01:53:02,070 --> 01:53:00,239
[Music]

2881
01:53:04,310 --> 01:53:02,080
doesn't that kind of limit what they're

2882
01:53:05,109 --> 01:53:04,320
doing

2883
01:53:07,750 --> 01:53:05,119
well

2884
01:53:10,229 --> 01:53:07,760
uh of course they don't just do that

2885
01:53:11,990 --> 01:53:10,239
they do have the robert powell's uh you

2886
01:53:14,470 --> 01:53:12,000
know director of research and he's got a

2887
01:53:17,030 --> 01:53:14,480
scientific board of course if you read

2888
01:53:19,189 --> 01:53:17,040
their papers they're great they're much

2889
01:53:23,109 --> 01:53:19,199
more careful they're certainly not

2890
01:53:25,109 --> 01:53:23,119
assumptive of the e.t hypothesis in fact

2891
01:53:27,910 --> 01:53:25,119
you know i've interviewed him when it

2892
01:53:29,750 --> 01:53:27,920
comes to putting together their top 10

2893
01:53:31,990 --> 01:53:29,760
list which takes them like a year to do

2894
01:53:33,830 --> 01:53:32,000
so they won't have the 2015

2895
01:53:36,550 --> 01:53:33,840
top 10 list out for

2896
01:53:38,709 --> 01:53:36,560
months because they you know comb over

2897
01:53:40,870 --> 01:53:38,719
all of their cases and they're very

2898
01:53:42,790 --> 01:53:40,880
careful and it boils down to very few

2899
01:53:45,430 --> 01:53:42,800
cases that they feel are

2900
01:53:48,310 --> 01:53:45,440
you know their best cases um

2901
01:53:51,189 --> 01:53:48,320
those sort of reports are very credible

2902
01:53:53,030 --> 01:53:51,199
um so you have that going on

2903
01:53:55,189 --> 01:53:53,040
but of course it doesn't get the type of

2904
01:53:56,550 --> 01:53:55,199
attention as

2905
01:53:59,030 --> 01:53:56,560
some of the more

2906
01:54:02,229 --> 01:53:59,040
sensational stuff that's going on like

2907
01:54:04,550 --> 01:54:02,239
the focus on the et aspects

2908
01:54:06,390 --> 01:54:04,560
uh and and i think you're right that if

2909
01:54:08,629 --> 01:54:06,400
you were to visit the site

2910
01:54:10,390 --> 01:54:08,639
you and look through it it you would

2911
01:54:12,950 --> 01:54:10,400
have this assumption

2912
01:54:15,830 --> 01:54:12,960
that uh you know we are being contacted

2913
01:54:18,149 --> 01:54:15,840
by aliens and i think even perhaps jan

2914
01:54:21,189 --> 01:54:18,159
has even written something to that

2915
01:54:23,589 --> 01:54:21,199
effect but i think you know as as much

2916
01:54:26,709 --> 01:54:23,599
as it frustrates people we don't have

2917
01:54:28,629 --> 01:54:26,719
proof of that where is the smoking gun

2918
01:54:31,030 --> 01:54:28,639
we don't have that we mostly have

2919
01:54:32,950 --> 01:54:31,040
anecdotal information

2920
01:54:35,109 --> 01:54:32,960
and that alone

2921
01:54:37,669 --> 01:54:35,119
is evidence of something and it makes it

2922
01:54:40,149 --> 01:54:37,679
something worthy of study but it's not

2923
01:54:42,470 --> 01:54:40,159
proof even with that anecdotal

2924
01:54:44,149 --> 01:54:42,480
information you can't say for sure and

2925
01:54:46,229 --> 01:54:44,159
this is the sort of thing jacques valet

2926
01:54:48,149 --> 01:54:46,239
talks about that frustrates people you

2927
01:54:50,550 --> 01:54:48,159
can't say for sure

2928
01:54:52,470 --> 01:54:50,560
that that is extraterrestrial even if

2929
01:54:54,629 --> 01:54:52,480
you have a third party some sort of

2930
01:54:55,669 --> 01:54:54,639
entity like some people claim

2931
01:54:57,589 --> 01:54:55,679
telling them that they're

2932
01:54:58,950 --> 01:54:57,599
extraterrestrial how do you know they're

2933
01:55:00,870 --> 01:54:58,960
telling you the truth i think that's

2934
01:55:03,109 --> 01:55:00,880
what david jacobs is saying you can

2935
01:55:04,390 --> 01:55:03,119
always assume that they're they're lying

2936
01:55:05,990 --> 01:55:04,400
but how do you know

2937
01:55:07,910 --> 01:55:06,000
my argument is how do you know that

2938
01:55:10,310 --> 01:55:07,920
isn't an internal voice

2939
01:55:11,910 --> 01:55:10,320
how do you know it's external especially

2940
01:55:14,310 --> 01:55:11,920
if it's something you can't see and

2941
01:55:17,189 --> 01:55:14,320
you're sensing even if it is something

2942
01:55:19,589 --> 01:55:17,199
you supposedly can't see how do you know

2943
01:55:21,270 --> 01:55:19,599
that you need to be more careful i think

2944
01:55:22,709 --> 01:55:21,280
and how do you prove it you can't prove

2945
01:55:23,990 --> 01:55:22,719
it all you can say is here's my

2946
01:55:28,629 --> 01:55:24,000
experience

2947
01:55:31,870 --> 01:55:28,639
important when you want to have

2948
01:55:35,109 --> 01:55:31,880
credibility that you frame them as

2949
01:55:36,709 --> 01:55:35,119
experiences and not proof

2950
01:55:38,310 --> 01:55:36,719
uh something that's interesting that

2951
01:55:39,589 --> 01:55:38,320
needs to be looked at

2952
01:55:41,189 --> 01:55:39,599
but

2953
01:55:43,510 --> 01:55:41,199
i think that's where you can get into

2954
01:55:46,550 --> 01:55:43,520
trouble and i think that's why

2955
01:55:49,189 --> 01:55:46,560
currently i don't think you have as much

2956
01:55:52,629 --> 01:55:49,199
when it comes to mainstream

2957
01:55:54,310 --> 01:55:52,639
coverage by the media i think uh we get

2958
01:55:57,109 --> 01:55:54,320
a lot of positive

2959
01:55:57,990 --> 01:55:57,119
coverage even for our conference

2960
01:55:59,589 --> 01:55:58,000
and it's

2961
01:56:02,870 --> 01:55:59,599
honestly because i try to steer the

2962
01:56:04,950 --> 01:56:02,880
media away from the more uh fringe stuff

2963
01:56:06,950 --> 01:56:04,960
and steer them towards the more credible

2964
01:56:09,910 --> 01:56:06,960
but often they'll go seek the fringe

2965
01:56:11,589 --> 01:56:09,920
stuff and they'll go there but i think

2966
01:56:14,470 --> 01:56:11,599
one of the people who

2967
01:56:15,589 --> 01:56:14,480
is doing best in that arena is leslie

2968
01:56:17,589 --> 01:56:15,599
kane

2969
01:56:20,070 --> 01:56:17,599
she's very careful about what she says

2970
01:56:22,550 --> 01:56:20,080
and how and she's always taken very

2971
01:56:25,430 --> 01:56:22,560
seriously by the media you rarely see

2972
01:56:27,350 --> 01:56:25,440
her being made fun of or her material

2973
01:56:29,750 --> 01:56:27,360
being made fun of you have people like

2974
01:56:32,470 --> 01:56:29,760
james oberg challenging it

2975
01:56:34,550 --> 01:56:32,480
but she always has a very sober response

2976
01:56:37,270 --> 01:56:34,560
and i think if you look at

2977
01:56:40,149 --> 01:56:37,280
james oberg's challenges to her book

2978
01:56:41,510 --> 01:56:40,159
uh she came out on top because she noted

2979
01:56:43,350 --> 01:56:41,520
you're talking about things i didn't

2980
01:56:46,629 --> 01:56:43,360
even talk about in my book which is kind

2981
01:56:49,270 --> 01:56:46,639
of disingenuous so

2982
01:56:50,950 --> 01:56:49,280
i think that leslie's approach is really

2983
01:56:52,709 --> 01:56:50,960
where things have to head but

2984
01:56:53,669 --> 01:56:52,719
unfortunately with the world becoming

2985
01:56:55,669 --> 01:56:53,679
more

2986
01:56:58,149 --> 01:56:55,679
sensational

2987
01:57:00,950 --> 01:56:58,159
and credibility

2988
01:57:03,430 --> 01:57:00,960
and talking points being backed by fact

2989
01:57:04,229 --> 01:57:03,440
are less prevalent

2990
01:57:06,550 --> 01:57:04,239
that

2991
01:57:08,550 --> 01:57:06,560
it may not be the direction the world is

2992
01:57:10,070 --> 01:57:08,560
going but i think

2993
01:57:13,189 --> 01:57:10,080
it's definitely something that brings

2994
01:57:15,750 --> 01:57:13,199
credibility uh i just hope that you know

2995
01:57:17,350 --> 01:57:15,760
there are more people following

2996
01:57:19,109 --> 01:57:17,360
that direction

2997
01:57:20,629 --> 01:57:19,119
and i think it's great that we have some

2998
01:57:23,669 --> 01:57:20,639
people in the mainstream media we have

2999
01:57:25,109 --> 01:57:23,679
billy cox but also with like lee spiegel

3000
01:57:26,550 --> 01:57:25,119
you know out there bringing a lot of

3001
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attention

3002
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we've got three more segments to go with

3003
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alejandra rojas i'm gene steinberg

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if you're fascinated by ufos ancient

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aliens archaeological mysteries ghost

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hunting atlantis and any other

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paranormal topic as we are be sure to

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check out ap magazine.info each month

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since 1985 it has presented the latest

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contains interviews with such leading

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personalities as jacques filet check

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click on one of their banners and check

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3103
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

3105
02:01:48,229 --> 02:01:44,719
comment or question about the paracast

3106
02:01:51,510 --> 02:01:48,239
send it to news at theparacast.com

3107
02:01:53,350 --> 02:01:51,520
that's news at theparacast.com

3108
02:01:55,830 --> 02:01:53,360
and don't forget to visit our famous

3109
02:02:00,149 --> 02:01:55,840
paracast community forums at

3110
02:02:03,990 --> 02:02:01,430
so if you tune in late and you're

3111
02:02:07,189 --> 02:02:04,000
listening on one of our two dozen or so

3112
02:02:09,030 --> 02:02:07,199
affiliates well chris o'brien is a bit

3113
02:02:10,709 --> 02:02:09,040
under the weather this week i think it's

3114
02:02:12,790 --> 02:02:10,719
because he forgot to take his flu shot

3115
02:02:15,350 --> 02:02:12,800
he'll tell us later when we do after the

3116
02:02:17,669 --> 02:02:15,360
power cast we have alejandra rojas from

3117
02:02:20,229 --> 02:02:17,679
open minds and they also bring you the

3118
02:02:22,550 --> 02:02:20,239
international ufo congress

3119
02:02:25,830 --> 02:02:22,560
you go to ufocongress.com you get more

3120
02:02:27,750 --> 02:02:25,840
information and openminds.tv to get more

3121
02:02:28,790 --> 02:02:27,760
information about that

3122
02:02:30,950 --> 02:02:28,800
and we're talking about different

3123
02:02:33,669 --> 02:02:30,960
approaches to the ufo mystery

3124
02:02:35,270 --> 02:02:33,679
and all the attendance stuff but do you

3125
02:02:36,950 --> 02:02:35,280
think at all this is something we've

3126
02:02:39,589 --> 02:02:36,960
talked about in the power cast from time

3127
02:02:42,790 --> 02:02:39,599
to time do you think at all we'll ever

3128
02:02:44,149 --> 02:02:42,800
get to a final solution or is it not in

3129
02:02:46,950 --> 02:02:44,159
our lifetime

3130
02:02:49,990 --> 02:02:46,960
well it's funny because as we fight and

3131
02:02:52,709 --> 02:02:50,000
argue down here uh about

3132
02:02:55,270 --> 02:02:52,719
on the planet earth about this or that

3133
02:02:57,270 --> 02:02:55,280
if this really is an extraterrestrial

3134
02:02:58,470 --> 02:02:57,280
phenomenon we're working on their

3135
02:03:00,550 --> 02:02:58,480
timeline

3136
02:03:02,229 --> 02:03:00,560
and it's funny that people get so upset

3137
02:03:04,950 --> 02:03:02,239
with the government are so upset with

3138
02:03:05,910 --> 02:03:04,960
this person or that person or or this or

3139
02:03:10,870 --> 02:03:05,920
that

3140
02:03:13,669 --> 02:03:10,880
believe this is an extraterrestrial

3141
02:03:16,470 --> 02:03:13,679
situation we would be working on their

3142
02:03:19,030 --> 02:03:16,480
timeline so it would be up to them i

3143
02:03:21,750 --> 02:03:19,040
think if it's up to humans never

3144
02:03:24,790 --> 02:03:21,760
i think that there is no motivation

3145
02:03:26,390 --> 02:03:24,800
even if all of those conspiracy theories

3146
02:03:29,030 --> 02:03:26,400
exist then there's certainly no

3147
02:03:30,070 --> 02:03:29,040
motivation for anybody to come forward

3148
02:03:31,990 --> 02:03:30,080
but even if you think of a

3149
02:03:35,109 --> 02:03:32,000
middle-of-the-line kind of conspiracy

3150
02:03:36,950 --> 02:03:35,119
theory that there's let's say this mj 12

3151
02:03:38,950 --> 02:03:36,960
organization or something what

3152
02:03:41,669 --> 02:03:38,960
motivation would they have

3153
02:03:42,709 --> 02:03:41,679
to come forward zero i don't think any

3154
02:03:45,350 --> 02:03:42,719
at all

3155
02:03:47,669 --> 02:03:45,360
and even if you look at politics which

3156
02:03:50,149 --> 02:03:47,679
is mostly about rhetoric it's it's about

3157
02:03:52,629 --> 02:03:50,159
moving people and and trying to change

3158
02:03:53,430 --> 02:03:52,639
things but it's also about politics it's

3159
02:03:56,870 --> 02:03:53,440
about

3160
02:03:59,510 --> 02:03:56,880
why would a a politician want to

3161
02:04:02,310 --> 02:03:59,520
disenfranchise any large or

3162
02:04:04,950 --> 02:04:02,320
powerful organization or open up a can

3163
02:04:07,030 --> 02:04:04,960
of worms they may speak to something but

3164
02:04:08,790 --> 02:04:07,040
they're going to do it in a safe way

3165
02:04:12,629 --> 02:04:08,800
where they can contain

3166
02:04:14,550 --> 02:04:12,639
any damage coming from either direction

3167
02:04:17,189 --> 02:04:14,560
either the secret holders or from the

3168
02:04:20,390 --> 02:04:17,199
public so it's going to be very tempered

3169
02:04:23,189 --> 02:04:20,400
and careful if there were any talking

3170
02:04:26,229 --> 02:04:23,199
points towards this effect and that's

3171
02:04:27,830 --> 02:04:26,239
all they would be it's talking points

3172
02:04:29,830 --> 02:04:27,840
that's all we get

3173
02:04:31,830 --> 02:04:29,840
i don't see it perhaps the public will

3174
02:04:33,510 --> 02:04:31,840
become more and more interested in this

3175
02:04:36,390 --> 02:04:33,520
topic and there will be sort of

3176
02:04:38,790 --> 02:04:36,400
movements i think that the way things

3177
02:04:41,669 --> 02:04:38,800
move is that there will have to become

3178
02:04:43,589 --> 02:04:41,679
then scientific uh i think the best way

3179
02:04:46,550 --> 02:04:43,599
would be that there would be resources

3180
02:04:49,030 --> 02:04:46,560
put towards the science things like

3181
02:04:50,870 --> 02:04:49,040
euphotog which doug trumbull and mark

3182
02:04:53,750 --> 02:04:50,880
d'antonio are working on and we'll talk

3183
02:04:55,109 --> 02:04:53,760
about or ufo data which is another

3184
02:04:57,350 --> 02:04:55,119
project where they're trying to put

3185
02:05:00,070 --> 02:04:57,360
together you know different telemetry

3186
02:05:02,149 --> 02:05:00,080
different technology that can capture

3187
02:05:04,470 --> 02:05:02,159
different you know emissions from

3188
02:05:05,350 --> 02:05:04,480
possible ufos to discover more about

3189
02:05:06,470 --> 02:05:05,360
them

3190
02:05:08,950 --> 02:05:06,480
but of course

3191
02:05:10,550 --> 02:05:08,960
equipment costs money so there has to be

3192
02:05:12,870 --> 02:05:10,560
funds put towards something like that

3193
02:05:15,030 --> 02:05:12,880
towards that that would be helpful

3194
02:05:17,589 --> 02:05:15,040
these sort of things or the mini cubes

3195
02:05:19,589 --> 02:05:17,599
these guys building these satellites to

3196
02:05:21,990 --> 02:05:19,599
go look for ufos that's kind of a cool

3197
02:05:24,470 --> 02:05:22,000
helpful thing i think more of those

3198
02:05:26,310 --> 02:05:24,480
sorts of projects can help move us

3199
02:05:28,790 --> 02:05:26,320
towards something because when you have

3200
02:05:32,070 --> 02:05:28,800
an organization like that perhaps obtain

3201
02:05:33,350 --> 02:05:32,080
some data that is unexplainable that

3202
02:05:35,669 --> 02:05:33,360
sort of thing

3203
02:05:38,950 --> 02:05:35,679
moves the public more than anything and

3204
02:05:40,870 --> 02:05:38,960
an example being the kepler find of this

3205
02:05:43,750 --> 02:05:40,880
planet or this star

3206
02:05:45,750 --> 02:05:43,760
that has its weird kind of twinkling or

3207
02:05:48,629 --> 02:05:45,760
dimming of the lights which might be

3208
02:05:51,350 --> 02:05:48,639
explained by something passing over it

3209
02:05:53,669 --> 02:05:51,360
perhaps large construction

3210
02:05:55,750 --> 02:05:53,679
projects by aliens or spaceships or

3211
02:05:57,910 --> 02:05:55,760
something that a you know a civilization

3212
02:05:59,750 --> 02:05:57,920
is blocking the light from the planet

3213
02:06:02,390 --> 02:05:59,760
here and there or dyson sphere is one of

3214
02:06:04,310 --> 02:06:02,400
the types of technology they suspect

3215
02:06:06,390 --> 02:06:04,320
that has really captured not only the

3216
02:06:08,790 --> 02:06:06,400
public's attention but also the

3217
02:06:10,870 --> 02:06:08,800
scientific community's attention because

3218
02:06:13,510 --> 02:06:10,880
now they're writing stories they're

3219
02:06:16,470 --> 02:06:13,520
writing papers about what might be going

3220
02:06:17,669 --> 02:06:16,480
on they're open to this extraterrestrial

3221
02:06:19,830 --> 02:06:17,679
answer

3222
02:06:22,550 --> 02:06:19,840
and uh that is fascinating i think

3223
02:06:24,550 --> 02:06:22,560
that's really moving this whole topic in

3224
02:06:26,229 --> 02:06:24,560
the in the right direction

3225
02:06:27,510 --> 02:06:26,239
and uh i think that's more of what we

3226
02:06:30,069 --> 02:06:27,520
need to see

3227
02:06:32,709 --> 02:06:30,079
and uh so and that's exciting enough

3228
02:06:35,510 --> 02:06:32,719
discovery and people looking to discover

3229
02:06:36,790 --> 02:06:35,520
more in that arena that is really

3230
02:06:39,030 --> 02:06:36,800
exciting

3231
02:06:41,109 --> 02:06:39,040
more movement towards that direction i

3232
02:06:43,750 --> 02:06:41,119
think is great i think people need to

3233
02:06:46,390 --> 02:06:43,760
relax when it comes to disclosure and

3234
02:06:48,470 --> 02:06:46,400
some major revelation that's not how the

3235
02:06:51,750 --> 02:06:48,480
world works i think everybody wants this

3236
02:06:54,870 --> 02:06:51,760
easy solution nothing is easy everything

3237
02:06:57,030 --> 02:06:54,880
takes hard work and you gotta join in

3238
02:06:58,950 --> 02:06:57,040
those people doing the hard work you

3239
02:07:01,270 --> 02:06:58,960
people may criticize mufon but you know

3240
02:07:03,270 --> 02:07:01,280
what those people are out on the street

3241
02:07:05,750 --> 02:07:03,280
they're putting in hours and hours of

3242
02:07:08,069 --> 02:07:05,760
work uh you and i are putting in hours

3243
02:07:09,990 --> 02:07:08,079
and hours of work lee spiegel john

3244
02:07:12,229 --> 02:07:10,000
greenwald all of the speakers that we

3245
02:07:14,870 --> 02:07:12,239
have they're all putting in their their

3246
02:07:16,950 --> 02:07:14,880
sweat equity hours of work to try to

3247
02:07:19,109 --> 02:07:16,960
figure something out that's what we have

3248
02:07:20,629 --> 02:07:19,119
to do instead of just trolling and

3249
02:07:22,550 --> 02:07:20,639
complaining about everything on the

3250
02:07:24,709 --> 02:07:22,560
internet and hoping for something big to

3251
02:07:27,030 --> 02:07:24,719
happen you got to get out there and do

3252
02:07:29,109 --> 02:07:27,040
something and i have a lot of respect

3253
02:07:30,470 --> 02:07:29,119
for everybody that we've talked about

3254
02:07:33,430 --> 02:07:30,480
even you know

3255
02:07:35,430 --> 02:07:33,440
uh the people i may not agree with that

3256
02:07:37,430 --> 02:07:35,440
they're at least they're out there

3257
02:07:39,189 --> 02:07:37,440
doing something well i think one of the

3258
02:07:41,669 --> 02:07:39,199
big things here that

3259
02:07:42,709 --> 02:07:41,679
we're all so concerned about is whether

3260
02:07:43,430 --> 02:07:42,719
we

3261
02:07:46,550 --> 02:07:43,440
are

3262
02:07:48,390 --> 02:07:46,560
focusing so much on et that if ufos turn

3263
02:07:50,069 --> 02:07:48,400
out to be something else we're going to

3264
02:07:52,950 --> 02:07:50,079
miss it

3265
02:07:55,189 --> 02:07:52,960
that's exactly kind of where the x-files

3266
02:07:57,669 --> 02:07:55,199
is going is that you know

3267
02:08:00,229 --> 02:07:57,679
mulder was so focused on the e.t aspect

3268
02:08:03,270 --> 02:08:00,239
that he totally missed that there is

3269
02:08:05,270 --> 02:08:03,280
some underlying conspiracy going on

3270
02:08:07,510 --> 02:08:05,280
where he could have been heading trying

3271
02:08:08,470 --> 02:08:07,520
to uncover the truth about this major

3272
02:08:11,030 --> 02:08:08,480
conspiracy

3273
02:08:12,550 --> 02:08:11,040
and instead he's looking for aliens i

3274
02:08:15,109 --> 02:08:12,560
think that's exactly what the point of

3275
02:08:16,149 --> 02:08:15,119
the x-files where it's headed is is

3276
02:08:18,149 --> 02:08:16,159
making

3277
02:08:19,669 --> 02:08:18,159
yeah we shouldn't just fall for one

3278
02:08:21,990 --> 02:08:19,679
theory and maybe

3279
02:08:23,589 --> 02:08:22,000
if you do fall for that theory it serves

3280
02:08:25,189 --> 02:08:23,599
the interests of

3281
02:08:27,270 --> 02:08:25,199
anyone who

3282
02:08:28,229 --> 02:08:27,280
wants to mislead you as to what's going

3283
02:08:31,109 --> 02:08:28,239
on

3284
02:08:33,109 --> 02:08:31,119
yeah that's true and i mean

3285
02:08:34,870 --> 02:08:33,119
who knows i think you know when it comes

3286
02:08:37,109 --> 02:08:34,880
to science

3287
02:08:39,830 --> 02:08:37,119
this is happening every day with the

3288
02:08:41,669 --> 02:08:39,840
amazing space discoveries

3289
02:08:44,229 --> 02:08:41,679
uh when it comes to

3290
02:08:46,709 --> 02:08:44,239
extra solar planets or even planets in

3291
02:08:49,189 --> 02:08:46,719
our solar system the ninth planet

3292
02:08:51,589 --> 02:08:49,199
or planets that are are these

3293
02:08:54,470 --> 02:08:51,599
these uh wandering planets these orphan

3294
02:08:55,350 --> 02:08:54,480
planets that don't even circle a sun

3295
02:08:57,589 --> 02:08:55,360
or

3296
02:09:00,149 --> 02:08:57,599
just any number of things they are

3297
02:09:03,430 --> 02:09:00,159
discovering things that they never could

3298
02:09:05,910 --> 02:09:03,440
have imagined would have existed

3299
02:09:08,149 --> 02:09:05,920
or they're discovering that many of

3300
02:09:10,229 --> 02:09:08,159
their theories were so wrong

3301
02:09:11,830 --> 02:09:10,239
that the real answer was something they

3302
02:09:13,510 --> 02:09:11,840
their imagine couldn't have even

3303
02:09:15,510 --> 02:09:13,520
comprehended

3304
02:09:17,430 --> 02:09:15,520
and i think that's the the argument that

3305
02:09:19,270 --> 02:09:17,440
jacques makes that you know chris

3306
02:09:20,629 --> 02:09:19,280
o'brien i think you you know we all love

3307
02:09:23,109 --> 02:09:20,639
this theory

3308
02:09:26,470 --> 02:09:23,119
that there are more there's more to be

3309
02:09:28,790 --> 02:09:26,480
discovered some of this phenomena uh

3310
02:09:31,189 --> 02:09:28,800
it's unknown because we don't know what

3311
02:09:33,270 --> 02:09:31,199
it is and the answers are probably going

3312
02:09:35,430 --> 02:09:33,280
to be things that our imagination just

3313
02:09:36,229 --> 02:09:35,440
couldn't have even conceived of

3314
02:09:38,950 --> 02:09:36,239
and

3315
02:09:41,510 --> 02:09:38,960
that i think is exciting

3316
02:09:43,990 --> 02:09:41,520
um it might be boring if it was just oh

3317
02:09:46,629 --> 02:09:44,000
it's just these aliens um it could be

3318
02:09:48,470 --> 02:09:46,639
much much more than that and

3319
02:09:49,830 --> 02:09:48,480
you know jacques is kind of a champion

3320
02:09:52,069 --> 02:09:49,840
of that thought

3321
02:09:54,950 --> 02:09:52,079
i think it's being more intelligent and

3322
02:09:56,390 --> 02:09:54,960
and open to the possibilities

3323
02:09:57,910 --> 02:09:56,400
so that you don't

3324
02:09:59,669 --> 02:09:57,920
run in the wrong direction i think

3325
02:10:02,709 --> 02:09:59,679
that's his message and that's one of the

3326
02:10:05,270 --> 02:10:02,719
reasons i'm such a huge fan of his

3327
02:10:07,669 --> 02:10:05,280
well i think the key here and this is

3328
02:10:10,709 --> 02:10:07,679
also one of the reasons why i liked the

3329
02:10:12,550 --> 02:10:10,719
work that john keel did is to question

3330
02:10:13,990 --> 02:10:12,560
the conventional wisdom and we'll

3331
02:10:16,950 --> 02:10:14,000
question things more in a moment we've

3332
02:10:19,390 --> 02:10:16,960
got alejandro rojas with us more to come

3333
02:10:25,030 --> 02:10:19,400
you're in the paracast

3334
02:10:31,350 --> 02:10:28,149
[Music]

3335
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and have 75 peer reviews published in

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3404
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3408
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300 000 group life insurance policy but

3410
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is changing jobs and can't take it with

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is 41 and takes medication to control

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3416
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for under 26 a month that's almost twice

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the coverage for less than half of what

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he had paid if select quote hasn't shot

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paying too much for your free quote call

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[Music]

3440
02:14:49,430 --> 02:14:47,440
this is jerome clark author of the ufo

3441
02:14:55,430 --> 02:14:49,440
encyclopedia in other books you're

3442
02:15:00,470 --> 02:14:57,750
alejandra rojas is here

3443
02:15:02,950 --> 02:15:00,480
we're just doing it all alone he and i

3444
02:15:04,470 --> 02:15:02,960
chris o'brien is under the weather but

3445
02:15:06,310 --> 02:15:04,480
should be back for

3446
02:15:09,350 --> 02:15:06,320
after the power cast after the power

3447
02:15:11,109 --> 02:15:09,360
cast is the exclusive podcast available

3448
02:15:14,030 --> 02:15:11,119
if you subscribe and only if you

3449
02:15:15,109 --> 02:15:14,040
subscribe to the powercast plus at

3450
02:15:17,910 --> 02:15:15,119
plus.thepowercast.com

3451
02:15:20,069 --> 02:15:17,920
plus.theparacast.com

3452
02:15:23,350 --> 02:15:20,079
let's continue with alejandra rojas

3453
02:15:26,069 --> 02:15:23,360
we're looking now at possible theories

3454
02:15:27,910 --> 02:15:26,079
about ufos and ufo belief

3455
02:15:30,390 --> 02:15:27,920
and we're focusing heavily here on the

3456
02:15:31,669 --> 02:15:30,400
fact that there are so many assumptions

3457
02:15:34,950 --> 02:15:31,679
being made

3458
02:15:38,229 --> 02:15:34,960
about ufos and what they might be and

3459
02:15:39,990 --> 02:15:38,239
maybe we should open our minds now

3460
02:15:41,669 --> 02:15:40,000
i want to ask you something here i don't

3461
02:15:43,750 --> 02:15:41,679
think you heard last week's episode we

3462
02:15:46,149 --> 02:15:43,760
talked about synchronicity

3463
02:15:47,750 --> 02:15:46,159
with a fellow named dr kirby surprise

3464
02:15:50,950 --> 02:15:47,760
we've also talked about it with mike

3465
02:15:52,229 --> 02:15:50,960
clelland whom you know and also walter

3466
02:15:54,629 --> 02:15:52,239
bosley

3467
02:15:56,629 --> 02:15:54,639
and they're all pointing to a lot of

3468
02:15:57,990 --> 02:15:56,639
different possibilities for unknown

3469
02:16:00,149 --> 02:15:58,000
phenomena

3470
02:16:01,589 --> 02:16:00,159
now in terms of synchronicity what's

3471
02:16:03,109 --> 02:16:01,599
your take on that have you ever

3472
02:16:06,149 --> 02:16:03,119
encountered it in your personal

3473
02:16:08,229 --> 02:16:06,159
experience yeah i definitely i encounter

3474
02:16:10,390 --> 02:16:08,239
it quite a bit and

3475
02:16:13,669 --> 02:16:10,400
i don't know you know it's kind of weird

3476
02:16:15,430 --> 02:16:13,679
because uh i kind of put those sort of

3477
02:16:17,109 --> 02:16:15,440
issues for me

3478
02:16:19,510 --> 02:16:17,119
in what i would call kind of a

3479
02:16:20,390 --> 02:16:19,520
philosophical kind of area so it's kind

3480
02:16:23,350 --> 02:16:20,400
of

3481
02:16:25,589 --> 02:16:23,360
life philosophies for myself as instead

3482
02:16:27,669 --> 02:16:25,599
of like a hard rule that is somehow

3483
02:16:30,310 --> 02:16:27,679
scientifically proven and i kind of feel

3484
02:16:32,950 --> 02:16:30,320
like that feeling of synchronicity

3485
02:16:33,830 --> 02:16:32,960
whatever it may be for me are kind of

3486
02:16:36,469 --> 02:16:33,840
like

3487
02:16:38,709 --> 02:16:36,479
landmarks uh often when i feel

3488
02:16:41,750 --> 02:16:38,719
synchronistic about something it's

3489
02:16:44,870 --> 02:16:41,760
something that is good like if there's a

3490
02:16:47,270 --> 02:16:44,880
project i take on for instance it often

3491
02:16:48,709 --> 02:16:47,280
and that i i'm curious should i be doing

3492
02:16:50,629 --> 02:16:48,719
this or not there's lots of

3493
02:16:53,190 --> 02:16:50,639
synchronicities that happen that make me

3494
02:16:55,509 --> 02:16:53,200
feel like oh this is the right thing or

3495
02:16:57,509 --> 02:16:55,519
even you know in a new relationship or

3496
02:16:59,270 --> 02:16:57,519
something like that of course that's

3497
02:17:01,589 --> 02:16:59,280
it's kind of out there it's not

3498
02:17:03,030 --> 02:17:01,599
necessarily something that's that's

3499
02:17:03,830 --> 02:17:03,040
definitive

3500
02:17:07,509 --> 02:17:03,840
but

3501
02:17:11,190 --> 02:17:07,519
it's a feeling that i certainly have had

3502
02:17:13,110 --> 02:17:11,200
so but as far as why we have them i you

3503
02:17:14,469 --> 02:17:13,120
know i have a psychology major and i

3504
02:17:17,270 --> 02:17:14,479
always think of

3505
02:17:21,190 --> 02:17:17,280
those kind of aspects in that

3506
02:17:23,750 --> 02:17:21,200
perhaps it isn't paranormal however

3507
02:17:25,110 --> 02:17:23,760
you know along these lines is and this

3508
02:17:26,950 --> 02:17:25,120
is what's really cool one of the

3509
02:17:30,309 --> 02:17:26,960
speakers we're having is dr claude

3510
02:17:33,589 --> 02:17:30,319
swanson at the conference and he is

3511
02:17:36,230 --> 02:17:33,599
fascinating he's a theoretical physicist

3512
02:17:38,709 --> 02:17:36,240
he went to school at mit and at

3513
02:17:39,830 --> 02:17:38,719
princeton then he worked at mit he's

3514
02:17:42,469 --> 02:17:39,840
worked for

3515
02:17:44,150 --> 02:17:42,479
the national science foundation

3516
02:17:45,429 --> 02:17:44,160
all of these defense contracts and

3517
02:17:47,270 --> 02:17:45,439
things like this

3518
02:17:49,349 --> 02:17:47,280
but he has this theory a lot of

3519
02:17:51,910 --> 02:17:49,359
theoretical physicists including dr

3520
02:17:53,830 --> 02:17:51,920
michio kaku really their their thing is

3521
02:17:55,589 --> 02:17:53,840
the theory of everything how can you

3522
02:17:58,469 --> 02:17:55,599
know all it's all got to fit inside of a

3523
02:18:00,389 --> 02:17:58,479
calculation uh einstein was looking for

3524
02:18:03,990 --> 02:18:00,399
that everybody was looking for that but

3525
02:18:05,910 --> 02:18:04,000
he feels that there is something to like

3526
02:18:08,469 --> 02:18:05,920
the idea of chi

3527
02:18:11,030 --> 02:18:08,479
or these subtle forces or even the

3528
02:18:12,150 --> 02:18:11,040
russians call this kind of idea of chi

3529
02:18:15,110 --> 02:18:12,160
torsion

3530
02:18:17,750 --> 02:18:15,120
or there's a psychologist who is into

3531
02:18:20,389 --> 02:18:17,760
ufos and stuff who called it oregon

3532
02:18:22,469 --> 02:18:20,399
uh energy i forget his name right now

3533
02:18:24,389 --> 02:18:22,479
it's a german name but um

3534
02:18:27,429 --> 02:18:24,399
he believes that there's a there's a

3535
02:18:29,110 --> 02:18:27,439
theory that there's a sort of like

3536
02:18:33,349 --> 02:18:29,120
subtle energy

3537
02:18:35,589 --> 02:18:33,359
that or a quantum type of particle

3538
02:18:37,429 --> 02:18:35,599
that is just

3539
02:18:40,070 --> 02:18:37,439
difficult to measure

3540
02:18:42,469 --> 02:18:40,080
that is uh somehow

3541
02:18:44,709 --> 02:18:42,479
part of everything's makeup including

3542
02:18:47,110 --> 02:18:44,719
our minds it's almost like the force

3543
02:18:48,950 --> 02:18:47,120
that is the force is real

3544
02:18:52,309 --> 02:18:48,960
yeah that the force is real and that

3545
02:18:53,270 --> 02:18:52,319
this allows for connections within timed

3546
02:18:55,429 --> 02:18:53,280
space

3547
02:18:58,389 --> 02:18:55,439
that are outside of our normal time

3548
02:19:00,870 --> 02:18:58,399
space and it allows for not just

3549
02:19:01,790 --> 02:19:00,880
paranormal phenomena but also

3550
02:19:04,549 --> 02:19:01,800
for

3551
02:19:06,629 --> 02:19:04,559
multi-dimensional travel and faster than

3552
02:19:09,110 --> 02:19:06,639
light type of travel and stuff like this

3553
02:19:12,389 --> 02:19:09,120
so he believes that perhaps

3554
02:19:14,870 --> 02:19:12,399
you know if ufos are using this sort of

3555
02:19:17,349 --> 02:19:14,880
our extraterrestrial civilizations out

3556
02:19:20,469 --> 02:19:17,359
there are using this they know how to

3557
02:19:21,830 --> 02:19:20,479
to manipulate it and use it to to travel

3558
02:19:23,669 --> 02:19:21,840
so

3559
02:19:26,469 --> 02:19:23,679
he goes into the science of the

3560
02:19:29,030 --> 02:19:26,479
paranormal and studies that have

3561
02:19:30,230 --> 02:19:29,040
been done in like china and in in russia

3562
02:19:33,190 --> 02:19:30,240
that are just

3563
02:19:35,589 --> 02:19:33,200
incredible really fascinating

3564
02:19:37,669 --> 02:19:35,599
so he believes that synchronous is a

3565
02:19:39,589 --> 02:19:37,679
part of all of this in fact he calls his

3566
02:19:41,509 --> 02:19:39,599
book or his website

3567
02:19:43,509 --> 02:19:41,519
synchronized universe

3568
02:19:45,030 --> 02:19:43,519
that somehow we are all kind of synced

3569
02:19:47,190 --> 02:19:45,040
in a way

3570
02:19:49,429 --> 02:19:47,200
that we don't realize and i think his

3571
02:19:51,110 --> 02:19:49,439
ideas are really fascinating

3572
02:19:52,870 --> 02:19:51,120
well i definitely think we should look

3573
02:19:54,550 --> 02:19:52,880
at out of the box thinking and i think

3574
02:19:57,349 --> 02:19:54,560
that's one of the big things about the

3575
02:19:59,910 --> 02:19:57,359
ufo field it always disturbs me is the

3576
02:20:01,590 --> 02:19:59,920
fact that we make so many assumptions as

3577
02:20:03,750 --> 02:20:01,600
to what's going on

3578
02:20:05,750 --> 02:20:03,760
that we don't step back and say okay we

3579
02:20:07,429 --> 02:20:05,760
have this stuff going on

3580
02:20:09,270 --> 02:20:07,439
this is the evidence that seems to

3581
02:20:10,870 --> 02:20:09,280
repeat itself that we

3582
02:20:12,710 --> 02:20:10,880
consider consistent

3583
02:20:14,790 --> 02:20:12,720
now what might be causing it forget

3584
02:20:17,190 --> 02:20:14,800
about spaceships or anything

3585
02:20:19,349 --> 02:20:17,200
just look at the data and start from

3586
02:20:21,510 --> 02:20:19,359
scratch and that's a big problem

3587
02:20:23,270 --> 02:20:21,520
yeah a lot of people have a problem with

3588
02:20:24,950 --> 02:20:23,280
wanting answers

3589
02:20:25,830 --> 02:20:24,960
and you know what there's a lot of

3590
02:20:27,750 --> 02:20:25,840
people

3591
02:20:31,110 --> 02:20:27,760
listening to this show that come to the

3592
02:20:32,710 --> 02:20:31,120
lectures they want answers and that's

3593
02:20:34,550 --> 02:20:32,720
why some of the people who start off

3594
02:20:38,230 --> 02:20:34,560
their talks with i got it all figured

3595
02:20:39,830 --> 02:20:38,240
out here's the deal people um

3596
02:20:42,150 --> 02:20:39,840
and and what

3597
02:20:43,670 --> 02:20:42,160
really shocks me about some of the

3598
02:20:45,429 --> 02:20:43,680
people who come to the conferences or

3599
02:20:46,389 --> 02:20:45,439
are in this field is that

3600
02:20:48,550 --> 02:20:46,399
they'll

3601
02:20:50,230 --> 02:20:48,560
gravitate towards these people

3602
02:20:51,830 --> 02:20:50,240
but these people are saying different

3603
02:20:53,670 --> 02:20:51,840
things and they're saying don't listen

3604
02:20:55,830 --> 02:20:53,680
to that person they got it all wrong i'm

3605
02:20:59,030 --> 02:20:55,840
the one who's got all the answers but

3606
02:21:00,710 --> 02:20:59,040
that's the key that's the key alejandro

3607
02:21:03,030 --> 02:21:00,720
the key is that

3608
02:21:04,389 --> 02:21:03,040
people want answers they don't want

3609
02:21:06,150 --> 02:21:04,399
someone to come in there and i've run

3610
02:21:09,270 --> 02:21:06,160
into this situation when i first started

3611
02:21:13,190 --> 02:21:09,280
lecturing about ufos i was in my late

3612
02:21:14,870 --> 02:21:13,200
teens or early 20s and i tried to give a

3613
02:21:16,630 --> 02:21:14,880
balanced view okay we've got this

3614
02:21:19,190 --> 02:21:16,640
incredible phenomenon

3615
02:21:20,870 --> 02:21:19,200
all these strange things going on they

3616
02:21:21,910 --> 02:21:20,880
wanted to know okay fine what's the

3617
02:21:23,510 --> 02:21:21,920
answer

3618
02:21:25,190 --> 02:21:23,520
well we haven't figured that out yet

3619
02:21:27,190 --> 02:21:25,200
that's not acceptable

3620
02:21:28,230 --> 02:21:27,200
right and they said in a sense the

3621
02:21:30,309 --> 02:21:28,240
speaker

3622
02:21:32,870 --> 02:21:30,319
is forced to give an answer

3623
02:21:33,910 --> 02:21:32,880
if he wants to keep doing these speeches

3624
02:21:35,990 --> 02:21:33,920
yep

3625
02:21:38,150 --> 02:21:36,000
yeah and i'm telling everybody first

3626
02:21:40,389 --> 02:21:38,160
speakers be true to yourself that's all

3627
02:21:41,910 --> 02:21:40,399
you can do my favorite speakers that's

3628
02:21:43,030 --> 02:21:41,920
you know they're ready to admit they

3629
02:21:44,550 --> 02:21:43,040
don't know

3630
02:21:47,190 --> 02:21:44,560
and you know what people if you think

3631
02:21:50,070 --> 02:21:47,200
you have it figured out you're wrong

3632
02:21:51,830 --> 02:21:50,080
and what you need to do is to make your

3633
02:21:54,790 --> 02:21:51,840
life happier

3634
02:21:57,190 --> 02:21:54,800
to be able to i think even be wiser and

3635
02:21:59,910 --> 02:21:57,200
discover more sit back and go through

3636
02:22:02,230 --> 02:21:59,920
this exercise and tell yourself i know

3637
02:22:04,150 --> 02:22:02,240
nothing i'm a bonehead i don't know crap

3638
02:22:06,710 --> 02:22:04,160
because you don't there's so much more

3639
02:22:08,790 --> 02:22:06,720
to discover out there nobody einstein

3640
02:22:11,030 --> 02:22:08,800
didn't know any everything look how much

3641
02:22:13,830 --> 02:22:11,040
we've discovered since einstein he

3642
02:22:17,270 --> 02:22:13,840
didn't know crap nobody knows there's

3643
02:22:19,190 --> 02:22:17,280
this saying i like that a fool believes

3644
02:22:21,830 --> 02:22:19,200
he's wise and a wise man knows he's a

3645
02:22:23,349 --> 02:22:21,840
fool but when you look at it well why

3646
02:22:25,830 --> 02:22:23,359
should i think that i'm a fool and i

3647
02:22:28,950 --> 02:22:25,840
don't know anything we because you don't

3648
02:22:31,429 --> 02:22:28,960
know much what you know is very little

3649
02:22:34,389 --> 02:22:31,439
but when you admit that to yourself that

3650
02:22:36,150 --> 02:22:34,399
can be uh advantageous because first of

3651
02:22:37,429 --> 02:22:36,160
all you're going to be open to new ideas

3652
02:22:39,510 --> 02:22:37,439
your brain

3653
02:22:41,190 --> 02:22:39,520
is going to be able to

3654
02:22:42,710 --> 02:22:41,200
conceive different ideas and put

3655
02:22:45,110 --> 02:22:42,720
different things together and come up

3656
02:22:47,670 --> 02:22:45,120
with new innovative things

3657
02:22:49,510 --> 02:22:47,680
but you're going to be happier and just

3658
02:22:51,830 --> 02:22:49,520
the sense of wonderment because if you

3659
02:22:54,150 --> 02:22:51,840
don't know and you you realize you don't

3660
02:22:56,790 --> 02:22:54,160
know then you're learning you're open to

3661
02:22:59,190 --> 02:22:56,800
learning new things every day and

3662
02:23:00,950 --> 02:22:59,200
existence is this wonderful journey of

3663
02:23:03,429 --> 02:23:00,960
discovery

3664
02:23:05,510 --> 02:23:03,439
and then you know everything you never

3665
02:23:07,429 --> 02:23:05,520
know what's around the corner i know

3666
02:23:09,270 --> 02:23:07,439
when we go to this conference i'm going

3667
02:23:12,150 --> 02:23:09,280
to learn new things and there's going to

3668
02:23:13,750 --> 02:23:12,160
be new fascinating discoveries i know

3669
02:23:16,309 --> 02:23:13,760
when i talk to you

3670
02:23:18,950 --> 02:23:16,319
on this podcast or we go to lunch

3671
02:23:22,150 --> 02:23:18,960
or whenever i do a podcast i'm going to

3672
02:23:24,950 --> 02:23:22,160
learn new and amazing things and it's

3673
02:23:27,750 --> 02:23:24,960
good to be open to that and open to the

3674
02:23:29,830 --> 02:23:27,760
to the genuine nature of discovery

3675
02:23:32,630 --> 02:23:29,840
um and to know that there's new things

3676
02:23:34,870 --> 02:23:32,640
to learn we don't know everything and

3677
02:23:36,469 --> 02:23:34,880
it's also honoring

3678
02:23:38,230 --> 02:23:36,479
i think it's you're able to honor

3679
02:23:41,030 --> 02:23:38,240
everybody's points of view a little

3680
02:23:43,670 --> 02:23:41,040
easier that way and that hey everybody's

3681
02:23:46,710 --> 02:23:43,680
got a piece of the puzzle there are

3682
02:23:48,550 --> 02:23:46,720
everybody has some sort of answer

3683
02:23:50,469 --> 02:23:48,560
and um

3684
02:23:52,070 --> 02:23:50,479
i think it's just damaging to think that

3685
02:23:53,910 --> 02:23:52,080
you have all the answers and if someone

3686
02:23:55,990 --> 02:23:53,920
tells you at the beginning of their talk

3687
02:23:57,590 --> 02:23:56,000
i have all the answers most likely

3688
02:23:58,870 --> 02:23:57,600
that's the person that has the least

3689
02:24:01,190 --> 02:23:58,880
answers

3690
02:24:02,870 --> 02:24:01,200
and that's what always happens here

3691
02:24:05,830 --> 02:24:02,880
the people who sometimes become very

3692
02:24:07,910 --> 02:24:05,840
popular are those who say okay sit down

3693
02:24:10,070 --> 02:24:07,920
i'll tell you what it's all about just

3694
02:24:11,110 --> 02:24:10,080
listen to me it's almost like a certain

3695
02:24:13,190 --> 02:24:11,120
political

3696
02:24:15,990 --> 02:24:13,200
figure we'll get into that in a moment

3697
02:24:17,910 --> 02:24:16,000
one more segment with alejandro rojas

3698
02:24:19,720 --> 02:24:17,920
and gene steinberg you're in the

3699
02:24:28,150 --> 02:24:19,730
barracast

3700
02:24:31,670 --> 02:24:28,160
[Music]

3701
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you are listening to gcn

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visit

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3792
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that's freedom the number

3793
02:28:02,790 --> 02:27:58,399
106.com

3794
02:28:05,270 --> 02:28:02,800
and start earning money as soon as next

3795
02:28:07,670 --> 02:28:05,280
week you be the boss go to

3796
02:28:09,910 --> 02:28:07,680
freedom106.com

3797
02:28:12,150 --> 02:28:09,920
removing bad taste and odor from your

3798
02:28:14,550 --> 02:28:12,160
drinking water is easy removing the bad

3799
02:28:17,030 --> 02:28:14,560
stuff you don't taste is what propure

3800
02:28:18,230 --> 02:28:17,040
does best water the way nature meant it

3801
02:28:20,550 --> 02:28:18,240
to be

3802
02:28:22,630 --> 02:28:20,560
clean crisp and refreshing see the

3803
02:28:24,630 --> 02:28:22,640
complete line of pro pure countertop

3804
02:28:26,469 --> 02:28:24,640
inline gravity and household water

3805
02:28:29,150 --> 02:28:26,479
filtration products visit your

3806
02:28:30,710 --> 02:28:29,160
authorized pro pure dealer or

3807
02:28:33,429 --> 02:28:30,720
propureusa.com that's

3808
02:28:47,510 --> 02:28:33,439
p-r-o-p-u-r-usa.com

3809
02:28:51,830 --> 02:28:50,150
this is robert hastings author of ufos

3810
02:28:54,550 --> 02:28:51,840
and nukes and you're listening to the

3811
02:29:01,110 --> 02:28:54,560
paracast the gold standard of paranormal

3812
02:29:04,230 --> 02:29:03,429
so don't you think it's true

3813
02:29:07,590 --> 02:29:04,240
that

3814
02:29:09,990 --> 02:29:07,600
people are so anxious to have answers

3815
02:29:11,830 --> 02:29:10,000
that they'll listen to somebody who says

3816
02:29:13,510 --> 02:29:11,840
i figured it all out for you they'll

3817
02:29:15,349 --> 02:29:13,520
listen to donald trump because donald

3818
02:29:17,270 --> 02:29:15,359
trump says i know how to deal with

3819
02:29:18,150 --> 02:29:17,280
mexico i know how to stop

3820
02:29:19,990 --> 02:29:18,160
the

3821
02:29:23,030 --> 02:29:20,000
illegal immigration of course he ignores

3822
02:29:25,110 --> 02:29:23,040
the fact that the number of people

3823
02:29:27,590 --> 02:29:25,120
getting into this country from the

3824
02:29:29,990 --> 02:29:27,600
southern border and the u.s is at the

3825
02:29:31,910 --> 02:29:30,000
lowest level since 2003

3826
02:29:33,590 --> 02:29:31,920
right but that works against their

3827
02:29:35,830 --> 02:29:33,600
theory so of course you can't tell the

3828
02:29:37,270 --> 02:29:35,840
truth you just have to say well we'll

3829
02:29:40,550 --> 02:29:37,280
have the answers

3830
02:29:43,910 --> 02:29:40,560
you know it's easy rhetoric is really

3831
02:29:46,950 --> 02:29:43,920
easy and it's easy for donald trump to

3832
02:29:48,790 --> 02:29:46,960
come out and say whatever he wants

3833
02:29:51,590 --> 02:29:48,800
and this always happens during

3834
02:29:53,990 --> 02:29:51,600
presidential races or any sort of

3835
02:29:55,910 --> 02:29:54,000
political race is that it's easy for a

3836
02:29:57,270 --> 02:29:55,920
politician to

3837
02:29:59,910 --> 02:29:57,280
you know just

3838
02:30:02,469 --> 02:29:59,920
use rhetoric to say things it's another

3839
02:30:04,389 --> 02:30:02,479
thing to actually make things happen

3840
02:30:05,830 --> 02:30:04,399
donald trump i don't think he cares

3841
02:30:07,349 --> 02:30:05,840
about whether or not these things can

3842
02:30:09,670 --> 02:30:07,359
happen or not because he loves the

3843
02:30:12,630 --> 02:30:09,680
attention he gets by saying stuff

3844
02:30:14,950 --> 02:30:12,640
but the same thing happens in this field

3845
02:30:17,349 --> 02:30:14,960
and that we can go out and we can blah

3846
02:30:19,910 --> 02:30:17,359
blah blah all day long

3847
02:30:22,309 --> 02:30:19,920
but actually discovering and making

3848
02:30:23,190 --> 02:30:22,319
things happen is a totally different

3849
02:30:25,110 --> 02:30:23,200
thing

3850
02:30:27,110 --> 02:30:25,120
and it's better to

3851
02:30:28,870 --> 02:30:27,120
be careful about things to make more

3852
02:30:30,950 --> 02:30:28,880
strides to actually move in the

3853
02:30:32,950 --> 02:30:30,960
directions that you want to move you're

3854
02:30:35,750 --> 02:30:32,960
going to get there further

3855
02:30:38,309 --> 02:30:35,760
by being open and trying to discover and

3856
02:30:40,630 --> 02:30:38,319
learn and especially in this day and age

3857
02:30:43,910 --> 02:30:40,640
when things change so rapidly being very

3858
02:30:46,230 --> 02:30:43,920
fluid and open to changing and adapting

3859
02:30:48,070 --> 02:30:46,240
but rhetoric can't be easy and and this

3860
02:30:49,670 --> 02:30:48,080
it happens in this field you can go

3861
02:30:51,590 --> 02:30:49,680
listen to rhetoric all day if that's

3862
02:30:52,950 --> 02:30:51,600
what you want to do but is it going to

3863
02:30:55,830 --> 02:30:52,960
reach your goal

3864
02:30:57,510 --> 02:30:55,840
is donald trump going to build a fence

3865
02:30:59,910 --> 02:30:57,520
like the great wall of china like he

3866
02:31:01,670 --> 02:30:59,920
says no it's not going to happen is he

3867
02:31:03,990 --> 02:31:01,680
going to get all the illegal mexicans

3868
02:31:05,429 --> 02:31:04,000
out of the country no who's going to do

3869
02:31:07,510 --> 02:31:05,439
it nobody's going to do it is he going

3870
02:31:09,750 --> 02:31:07,520
to do it all by himself he's bringing

3871
02:31:12,550 --> 02:31:09,760
our joe a pile over here from phoenix

3872
02:31:15,110 --> 02:31:12,560
out to talk about this joe pryo hasn't

3873
02:31:16,710 --> 02:31:15,120
done it joe arpaio has busted a lot of

3874
02:31:19,750 --> 02:31:16,720
you know hard-working people but he

3875
02:31:22,070 --> 02:31:19,760
hasn't made any headway and like there

3876
02:31:24,550 --> 02:31:22,080
being less illegals i i don't want to

3877
02:31:28,070 --> 02:31:24,560
get too political because

3878
02:31:29,270 --> 02:31:28,080
of who i believe has been successful but

3879
02:31:31,750 --> 02:31:29,280
um

3880
02:31:33,830 --> 02:31:31,760
you've already mentioned that but right

3881
02:31:36,389 --> 02:31:33,840
rhetoric is just rhetoric it's hollow

3882
02:31:37,910 --> 02:31:36,399
words and maybe that's what some people

3883
02:31:39,910 --> 02:31:37,920
want but

3884
02:31:41,670 --> 02:31:39,920
at least for a lot of us who i think

3885
02:31:43,190 --> 02:31:41,680
you're for true research or you want to

3886
02:31:45,270 --> 02:31:43,200
make discoveries

3887
02:31:47,190 --> 02:31:45,280
even if you're a true activist you want

3888
02:31:49,270 --> 02:31:47,200
to make some progress

3889
02:31:52,150 --> 02:31:49,280
and you can we can say the government's

3890
02:31:54,790 --> 02:31:52,160
going to you know disclose tomorrow

3891
02:31:56,550 --> 02:31:54,800
every day and it not happen

3892
02:31:58,630 --> 02:31:56,560
that doesn't really get us anywhere in

3893
02:32:01,349 --> 02:31:58,640
fact all we're doing is crying wolf and

3894
02:32:03,190 --> 02:32:01,359
so then you're losing your credibility

3895
02:32:04,950 --> 02:32:03,200
and the problem with that is

3896
02:32:06,070 --> 02:32:04,960
you keep saying the same thing over and

3897
02:32:07,830 --> 02:32:06,080
over again

3898
02:32:09,590 --> 02:32:07,840
and maybe it'll happen maybe there is

3899
02:32:11,750 --> 02:32:09,600
something to disclose and there will be

3900
02:32:14,469 --> 02:32:11,760
some revelation but it's the boy who

3901
02:32:16,389 --> 02:32:14,479
cried wolf you keep saying it eventually

3902
02:32:19,190 --> 02:32:16,399
people will look at you and say

3903
02:32:21,270 --> 02:32:19,200
all right enough already yeah the real

3904
02:32:23,030 --> 02:32:21,280
information comes forth well all right

3905
02:32:25,030 --> 02:32:23,040
enough already you're telling us the

3906
02:32:27,270 --> 02:32:25,040
same story every year

3907
02:32:28,710 --> 02:32:27,280
it's time to give it up it's time to

3908
02:32:32,790 --> 02:32:28,720
look for another solution we've been

3909
02:32:35,429 --> 02:32:32,800
talking about disclosure since the 1950s

3910
02:32:37,190 --> 02:32:35,439
major kehoe was saying disclosure coming

3911
02:32:39,670 --> 02:32:37,200
soon coming soon

3912
02:32:41,270 --> 02:32:39,680
to a congressional hearing near you they

3913
02:32:42,870 --> 02:32:41,280
had congressional hearings in the mid

3914
02:32:44,790 --> 02:32:42,880
60s what we get

3915
02:32:47,590 --> 02:32:44,800
the condon report you know do you expect

3916
02:32:49,670 --> 02:32:47,600
to trust congress to do anything

3917
02:32:52,070 --> 02:32:49,680
i mean my mentors are some of these guys

3918
02:32:54,469 --> 02:32:52,080
like john schussler or some of these

3919
02:32:57,349 --> 02:32:54,479
older people that i have known lee or

3920
02:32:59,349 --> 02:32:57,359
leo sprinkle i've known for years or

3921
02:33:01,510 --> 02:32:59,359
some of these older gentlemen stan

3922
02:33:03,110 --> 02:33:01,520
friedman and some of these guys

3923
02:33:04,950 --> 02:33:03,120
they don't feel the same way a lot of

3924
02:33:07,429 --> 02:33:04,960
people do because they've been in this

3925
02:33:09,750 --> 02:33:07,439
for so long that i remember i think it

3926
02:33:11,590 --> 02:33:09,760
was john schussler well john schussler

3927
02:33:13,030 --> 02:33:11,600
said he was really excited disclosure

3928
02:33:15,830 --> 02:33:13,040
was going to happen you know back in the

3929
02:33:17,750 --> 02:33:15,840
70s and then you had

3930
02:33:19,590 --> 02:33:17,760
president carter coming out and saying i

3931
02:33:21,429 --> 02:33:19,600
saw ufo and i'm going to have disclosure

3932
02:33:23,270 --> 02:33:21,439
happen i have this great interview with

3933
02:33:25,830 --> 02:33:23,280
steven spielberg where he's even talking

3934
02:33:26,870 --> 02:33:25,840
about that disclosure happening but it

3935
02:33:28,630 --> 02:33:26,880
didn't

3936
02:33:30,630 --> 02:33:28,640
with all of the talk and everything that

3937
02:33:32,790 --> 02:33:30,640
happened and it hasn't

3938
02:33:34,630 --> 02:33:32,800
and so they get skeptical that it'll

3939
02:33:36,389 --> 02:33:34,640
happen during their lifetime and i think

3940
02:33:37,750 --> 02:33:36,399
i'm there i just don't see that

3941
02:33:41,190 --> 02:33:37,760
happening and i don't think we're

3942
02:33:43,349 --> 02:33:41,200
working on our timeline anyway but

3943
02:33:45,910 --> 02:33:43,359
so i think it's then it's more important

3944
02:33:47,990 --> 02:33:45,920
to focus on other things

3945
02:33:50,309 --> 02:33:48,000
the thing here i think is before we hope

3946
02:33:52,150 --> 02:33:50,319
for disclosure which is a compound we've

3947
02:33:53,750 --> 02:33:52,160
got to redouble our efforts to figure

3948
02:33:56,230 --> 02:33:53,760
out what's going on not make these

3949
02:33:58,950 --> 02:33:56,240
assumptions and that puts

3950
02:34:01,110 --> 02:33:58,960
a mufon in a bad light because to them

3951
02:34:02,550 --> 02:34:01,120
it appears to be all e.t

3952
02:34:05,110 --> 02:34:02,560
so how do you

3953
02:34:07,990 --> 02:34:05,120
regenerate that interest in the search

3954
02:34:09,990 --> 02:34:08,000
for a valid theory whatever it might be

3955
02:34:11,990 --> 02:34:10,000
even if it's not e.t

3956
02:34:14,070 --> 02:34:12,000
well i i don't think that's putting

3957
02:34:15,030 --> 02:34:14,080
mufon in the right light at all though

3958
02:34:16,630 --> 02:34:15,040
because

3959
02:34:18,950 --> 02:34:16,640
that's the other argument i used to make

3960
02:34:21,510 --> 02:34:18,960
is mufon is a lot of people

3961
02:34:23,830 --> 02:34:21,520
and robert powell won't tell you the

3962
02:34:26,309 --> 02:34:23,840
same thing he won't tell you the e.t

3963
02:34:28,389 --> 02:34:26,319
hypothesis is certain and he's a

3964
02:34:30,630 --> 02:34:28,399
director of research

3965
02:34:32,790 --> 02:34:30,640
i know others like the the guy who runs

3966
02:34:35,190 --> 02:34:32,800
the um one of their special

3967
02:34:37,590 --> 02:34:35,200
investigation teams is similar there's

3968
02:34:39,990 --> 02:34:37,600
many people many state directors so

3969
02:34:42,950 --> 02:34:40,000
there are different mufon is so large a

3970
02:34:45,830 --> 02:34:42,960
volunteer organization made up of 5 000

3971
02:34:47,910 --> 02:34:45,840
subscribers thousands of of uh

3972
02:34:50,309 --> 02:34:47,920
investigators they don't all feel the

3973
02:34:52,469 --> 02:34:50,319
same really their feelings run the gamut

3974
02:34:53,510 --> 02:34:52,479
of this field

3975
02:34:55,590 --> 02:34:53,520
so

3976
02:34:57,110 --> 02:34:55,600
perhaps you could say that when it comes

3977
02:34:59,750 --> 02:34:57,120
to maybe the

3978
02:35:01,270 --> 02:34:59,760
leadership or at least with jan himself

3979
02:35:04,630 --> 02:35:01,280
personally

3980
02:35:06,389 --> 02:35:04,640
but jan of course is just one man

3981
02:35:09,670 --> 02:35:06,399
so

3982
02:35:11,670 --> 02:35:09,680
i think that those people

3983
02:35:14,150 --> 02:35:11,680
just like this field those people in

3984
02:35:16,230 --> 02:35:14,160
that organization who feel that they've

3985
02:35:18,309 --> 02:35:16,240
already got it figured out are limiting

3986
02:35:20,070 --> 02:35:18,319
themselves

3987
02:35:21,910 --> 02:35:20,080
but i don't think they're the people

3988
02:35:23,270 --> 02:35:21,920
that are also making the biggest

3989
02:35:26,309 --> 02:35:23,280
discoveries

3990
02:35:28,070 --> 02:35:26,319
whereas the people who are making the

3991
02:35:31,030 --> 02:35:28,080
bigger discoveries are the people who

3992
02:35:33,990 --> 02:35:31,040
are more open um and i say that just

3993
02:35:35,910 --> 02:35:34,000
because you know when i think of some of

3994
02:35:37,270 --> 02:35:35,920
the most exciting research

3995
02:35:38,150 --> 02:35:37,280
like we said at the beginning of the

3996
02:35:40,230 --> 02:35:38,160
show

3997
02:35:41,990 --> 02:35:40,240
the homeland security video and the

3998
02:35:44,150 --> 02:35:42,000
research done on that to me is one of

3999
02:35:45,510 --> 02:35:44,160
the exciting stories of the year

4000
02:35:47,510 --> 02:35:45,520
and um

4001
02:35:49,990 --> 02:35:47,520
you know those are all researchers who

4002
02:35:51,590 --> 02:35:50,000
did this investigation independent of

4003
02:35:52,630 --> 02:35:51,600
mufon but there are people involved with

4004
02:35:54,550 --> 02:35:52,640
mufon

4005
02:35:57,190 --> 02:35:54,560
and uh and

4006
02:35:59,110 --> 02:35:57,200
i think their work you arguably could

4007
02:36:00,309 --> 02:35:59,120
represent you know

4008
02:36:01,830 --> 02:36:00,319
um

4009
02:36:04,230 --> 02:36:01,840
people move on on what they think as

4010
02:36:06,309 --> 02:36:04,240
well so

4011
02:36:08,790 --> 02:36:06,319
so maybe in spite of the leadership good

4012
02:36:12,710 --> 02:36:08,800
work is being done anyway

4013
02:36:17,030 --> 02:36:15,030
that jan's role isn't to do that

4014
02:36:19,990 --> 02:36:17,040
research but the people whose role it is

4015
02:36:22,070 --> 02:36:20,000
to do that research are doing a a great

4016
02:36:23,750 --> 02:36:22,080
job

4017
02:36:25,510 --> 02:36:23,760
so maybe we'll get something but then

4018
02:36:27,429 --> 02:36:25,520
it's been so many years you've got to

4019
02:36:30,790 --> 02:36:27,439
feel jaded don't you

4020
02:36:33,030 --> 02:36:30,800
yeah certainly but then again um you

4021
02:36:34,870 --> 02:36:33,040
don't feel jaded if you realize that we

4022
02:36:37,270 --> 02:36:34,880
don't know much and we're discovering

4023
02:36:39,349 --> 02:36:37,280
new everyday something new every day and

4024
02:36:41,670 --> 02:36:39,359
that makes every discovery fascinating

4025
02:36:43,990 --> 02:36:41,680
and fun and that's where i am and that's

4026
02:36:45,990 --> 02:36:44,000
what keeps me motivated so every

4027
02:36:49,110 --> 02:36:46,000
discovery this discovery by john

4028
02:36:51,750 --> 02:36:49,120
greenwald that the dia lost their files

4029
02:36:53,590 --> 02:36:51,760
that's really exciting to me and

4030
02:36:56,550 --> 02:36:53,600
whatever big story they'll be tomorrow

4031
02:36:58,710 --> 02:36:56,560
will be the next exciting thing the cia

4032
02:37:01,349 --> 02:36:58,720
making a big deal about ufos to help

4033
02:37:03,110 --> 02:37:01,359
promote x-files that's really exciting

4034
02:37:04,950 --> 02:37:03,120
that's my next story i'll be writing

4035
02:37:06,870 --> 02:37:04,960
about and of course all of the cool

4036
02:37:09,030 --> 02:37:06,880
things going on at the ufo congress is

4037
02:37:10,790 --> 02:37:09,040
exciting so i think there's a lot to

4038
02:37:12,550 --> 02:37:10,800
look forward to

4039
02:37:14,389 --> 02:37:12,560
alejandro rojas please tell our

4040
02:37:16,790 --> 02:37:14,399
listeners if they want more information

4041
02:37:19,270 --> 02:37:16,800
about what you do where do they go if

4042
02:37:22,190 --> 02:37:19,280
you want more information we update our

4043
02:37:24,950 --> 02:37:22,200
website daily with ufo stories at

4044
02:37:27,429 --> 02:37:24,960
openminds.tv we also have a youtube page

4045
02:37:29,830 --> 02:37:27,439
uh very active social media just look

4046
02:37:31,429 --> 02:37:29,840
for openminds.tv

4047
02:37:33,590 --> 02:37:31,439
and of course for the ufo congress

4048
02:37:35,670 --> 02:37:33,600
you'll find it there at openminds.tv we

4049
02:37:38,150 --> 02:37:35,680
sponsor the congress but you'll find

4050
02:37:39,910 --> 02:37:38,160
that at ufocongress.com and you'll find

4051
02:37:41,590 --> 02:37:39,920
also some of the exciting mainstream

4052
02:37:43,270 --> 02:37:41,600
media attention we've gotten already i

4053
02:37:44,550 --> 02:37:43,280
think i mentioned i was on fox news last

4054
02:37:46,389 --> 02:37:44,560
night and they've been treating the

4055
02:37:49,349 --> 02:37:46,399
topic very seriously so that's been a

4056
02:37:51,990 --> 02:37:49,359
lot of fun and we'll have a lot more in

4057
02:37:53,990 --> 02:37:52,000
the media in the coming days

4058
02:37:56,070 --> 02:37:54,000
you can find us on twitter look for the

4059
02:37:58,150 --> 02:37:56,080
powercast look for the powercast on

4060
02:38:00,790 --> 02:37:58,160
twitter look for two

4061
02:38:02,950 --> 02:38:00,800
powercast fan clubs on facebook doesn't

4062
02:38:05,270 --> 02:38:02,960
matter which one you visit now if you

4063
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want to hear our second radio show

4064
02:38:10,469 --> 02:38:08,160
called after the power cast a wrap-up

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02:38:12,870 --> 02:38:10,479
show special interviews

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color commentary a lot more

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you've got to be a member of the

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plus.thepowercast.com you get after the

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powercast

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02:38:27,670 --> 02:38:25,359
you get this show free of the network

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adds better quality audio

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you also get show transcripts videos

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more to come for a modest monthly annual

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five-year even a lifetime subscription

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02:38:40,230 --> 02:38:37,359
rate

4076
02:38:42,389 --> 02:38:40,240
that's plus.theparacast.com

4077
02:38:44,550 --> 02:38:42,399
for the powercast plus

4078
02:38:52,370 --> 02:38:44,560
alejandra rojas thank you for joining us

4079
02:38:52,380 --> 02:38:55,590
[Music]

4080
02:38:55,600 --> 02:38:56,950
the back

4081
02:39:02,550 --> 02:38:59,270
featuring gene steinberg and christopher

4082
02:39:06,070 --> 02:39:02,560
o'brien is a copyrighted presentation of

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02:39:10,230 --> 02:39:06,080
making the impossible incorporated